Okay so assuming we can produce large quantities of antimatter, which is within the realm of possibility, we could equip our ship with a laser array that continuously fires ahead of the ship, obliterating any dust a safe distance from the ship.
I have a question about radiation, though. Would forward shielding be sufficient, or do you need protection on all sides of the ship? Would a really powerful electromagnetic field surrounding the ship be sufficient?
They have recently done work on the alcubierre drive that greatly reduces the energy required.
Now if we could just find a large deposit of exotic matter somewhere…
Well, if you propose that we COULD make anti-matter in sufficient quantities (which currently we can’t make more than a few atoms worth, IIRC) then the better bet would probably be a plasma shield (hell, as long as we are proposing something we flat out can’t to today why not something we can do on a limited scale? :p). Dust particles have a charge, IIRC, so a plasma shield should be able to deflect them. Or, just use a large shield physical shield, perhaps with your water/ice stores in it to go in front of the ship and allow it to take the hit.
The thing limiting our production of antimatter is the amount of energy it requires. Space based solar power will provide us with practically limitless energy. First step is the construction of a maglev mass driver- circular track design- to bring down the cost of launches to 1/100 the current cost.
Would a plasma shield protect the ship from radiation?
“A protection shield will be needed to block relativistic interstellar gas that can also absorb most of the cosmic rays which, as a result of relativistic aberration, form into a beamed flow propagating toward the front of the spaceship.”
Source: Semyonov, Oleg G. RADIATION HAZARD OF RELATIVISTIC INTERSTELLAR FLIGHT. State University of New York.
Ok, if I understand this correctly, forward shielding is all that is needed to protect the ship from radiation - answered one of my own questions.
Also, the guy who wrote this paper said a radiation shield is within reach of today’s technology. And the guy’s name is Semyonov. Dude probably knows what he’s talking about.
In response to concerns about the Oort Cloud - the objects within it are so far apart that the odds of hitting something are astronomically low. People probably envision the scene in Star Wars where the millennium falcon is dodging asteroids, but it isn’t like that at all. The Oort Cloud consists mostly of empty space. If we combine this fact with the possibility of an AI controlled spaceship which could see several thousand light years ahead and plot a new course automatically, I don’t see the Oort Cloud as an insurmountable obstacle.
AI gives you the ability to see several thousand light years??
Telescopes do
Just finishing up the 5 pages of discussion and noticing this discussion seems to be hitting a few barriers of thought.
(It is my belief that we can hit a brick wall in thought if we continue along a single way of thinking without stepping back to look at it from an entirely new angle.)
So far, the agreed method seems to be using a generation ship, or colonizing outward, sort of like the Zerg “creep” in Starcraft.
I find a few things wrong with a generation ship, for one, it’s no different than staying on our current planet, since I believe it has been proven that our entire solar system is in fact traveling throughout the galaxy already! In essence, we’re already a generation ship.
The OP’s suggestion of the “sleeper ship” with 500+ crews in stasis is plausible, but it is ignoring one factor that every one else in this thread is completely ignoring.
Our goal should be to master inter-stellar flight as a way of life, not as a one-time, get-the-hell-outta-dodge plan.
We should be able to travel to another planet and back without having to wait thousands of years.
Yes, like chess, the laws of physics; time and space, cannot be changed. Unlike chess, however, the universe is not yet understood. It is as if we are on a board to start with, but we find out that the board is an illusion, and that we are actually limiting ourselves with that thought. The board is an abstraction to help us comprehend the game, but it is not a fact that there even is a board at all.
The pieces are not even understood. We see the pieces, but they continue to change, and the ones we do understand are only a small part of the infinitely expanding board and pieces, which turn out to not be a board or pieces at all!
Think about bees. They travel from the hive, seeking out pollen to create honey for their young. In essence, the bee could be seen as a spaceship to the micro-organisms inside of it. WE ARE THOSE MICRO-ORGANISMS in the spaceship of our galaxy.
We could just dismiss space travel, but we are bound by our very nature to explore the unknown, so we attempt it.
All attempts so far have been using what we know about life on a planet. We may find out we are missing a key element that has been there all along, an element known as our self.
Space travel may be as simple as opening our minds to new ways of thinking. There seems to be a few problems with our species that need to be taken care of:
[] Energy
We simply have not perfected a way to utilize energy. All of the problems pertaining to space travel mentioned should be alleviated by allowing a ship that was able to function on common materials. If we can harvest commonly occurring materials in space as we travel, convert it to clean, efficient, and safe energy, then we would be able to eliminate the energy and cost problems associated with space travel. I believe the first step towards this is creating transportation on our OWN planet this way.
[] Time
Every post mentions "in 100k years" or "in the distant future." We can start RIGHT NOW. We must unite our people as a species. We fight among ourselves, and so how would we possibly travel through space? Every human being on this planet has the ability to change RIGHT NOW. We need to stop living in this lifestyle of fossil fuels and start looking forward.
Perhaps we need to let our mind be the vehicle, and the stars be damned.
If you imagine the universe as a series of mirrors lined up against each other, one can go so far as to say that there are universes infinitely smaller and infinitely larger. The universe inside of the bee, for instance, could be OUR VERY EXISTENCE yet in a smaller universe. The distance between the earth and the sun could be the distance between a liver cell and a kidney cell. How do we know that the distance between our solar systems is not, at a larger scale, microscopic to the larger universe?
If this is the case, to an inhabitant of the larger universe, our space travel would be observed as an insect, jumping through the air, landing on a blade of grass. The 10,000 years that pass by for us would be half a second to the larger universe.
Time is relative, so logically we must learn how to shift our relation to it in order to master space travel. Imagine if we fire off a few bursts of energy into space, and form a tear in space and time, emerging on the other side, and close that tear with a different burst of energy. It goes against our current knowledge, but is not impossible, since the universe is infinitely expanding, and we occupy only a microscopic portion of a random location in it. We could travel to another solar system today, if we found the key to travel.
We are thinking about ships, engines, shields. Maybe we need to think about alternate planes of existence.
All in all, I think this thread has been a great read. I just feel that we should be able to learn more about our universe within our lifetimes, and not generations ahead. Sure it’s a sad thought that it may be a reality, but I know that there are those of us that will not settle for that. The truth is out there.
Given that this thread’s been resurrected, I just thought I’d pop in to mention that this economic subject has been studied already, in a paper by Paul Krugman.
Krugman, Paul. The Theory of Interstellar Trade (PDF), July 1978.
Personally I don’t think travel like Star Trek or TV will every become a reality or if it is even possible at any level of technology. For simple fact it would require Exotic Matter/Energy that might not be allowed by the True laws of physics. Yes Humans did fly but that’s because it was very simple physics. If it was possible that Society would have the ability to control space and time. That would require Tools that we couldn’t even imagine. That technology would be like comparing our Most advanced Tech to a Stick a Chimp uses to eat termites.
I do see future technology like True AI, BioEngeering, Downloading Consciences, Unlimited Sustainable/Renewable energy and ability to travel at least 2/3 speed of light. A Society with that level of technology could map a Galaxy, Identify planets that could support life. Use AI to Build and Operate Seed ships, that contain Stored Consciences. Once they arrive at a new Planet could build a Colony and BioEngineer bodies that can survive on that planet and upload the conscience to it. It would only take a few Million years to Colonize a Sector of the Galaxy. Of course that Society would have to except that the Mind is what make Intelligence not the Body which is just a Machine. I could see a Society advancing in this fashion. That Society could easily keep use the DNA of real Beings and Clone new bodies for that first Generation on a new planet and then let Nature run its course or it completely Engineering it self, blurring the line between Real Intelligence and AI. Maybe AI would want to have a Biological body. In lot of ways just seems like the next leap in Evolution.
Whats cooling people born today might see this technology and they will be the ones who start that amazing engineering project. I know that’s the way I want History a Million years from now to remember US.
My edit time ran out. I wanted to add the Following. Maybe the Consciences of the people born today will still exist a few Million years from to witness this.
Even Matter/Antimatter reactions with 100% Energy Conversion wouldn’t allow for Warp Drives or Wormhole Construction, you need Exotic Matter/Energy that creates repulsive Gravity. Which might not exist or be possible to create. There might be no physical means of doing this and if there was the Universe probably wouldn’t exist or least a Universe that has Matter.
I’ve become dubious of mankind ever colonizing the moon or Mars. The difficulties of Space Travel are just too daunting. A moon colony would require regular supply. Right now we barely can keep the International Space station supplied. The US moth balled its aging Shuttles. Russia is the only supply source for the space station and they can only carry a few people and supplies.
I agree humans aren’t going to be flitting around the galaxy until we become nearly immortal and don’t mind sitting around for a million years at a time.
OTOH, colonizing Mars and the various moons is very doable, as is colonizing the orbits between in our own custom-built little worlds.
That is only true for crewed missions, not supply missions. ESA, Japan and SpaceX (USA) are all flying supply missions to the ISS.
I didn’t know that. Ignorance fought. I’ll read more on this.
Well, I did sit through the Director’s Cut of Das Boot.
OK, I give up. What do you think capital letters are for?