# We are so f\*cking screwed (re: the war) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179 "2003-03-30T05:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RobbieFal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c5a1d2/32.png) [@RobbieFal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobbieFal)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/21 "2003-03-30T07:35:30Z")
and they’ll give us the ‘thumbs up’ (which totally doesn’t mean “Up Yours”, no, we’re sure of it!!!) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/22 "2003-03-30T07:56:05Z")
12 days is hardly enough time to go by to declare it unwinnable and throw in the towel. Even if we had a retreat, so what? What does that mean. That this target was too strong to ever approach again? Hardly. I don’t trust Bush or any of his henchman, or his alleged ‘reasons’ for this war. But we are not fucked. These things take time and losses, and even the occasional retreat, are to be expected. ---
**Author:** ![Philosophocles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Philosophocles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philosophocles)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/23 "2003-03-30T08:10:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wabbit \* > \*\ ***Rex** old buddy, all I can say is ‘preach it’. The hell of it is that the people that got us into this mess aren’t even going to pay for it (yea, Bush might not get re-elected but I’m sure he’ll get a cushy job somewhere making a few million a year). Meanwhile the rest of us are going to be spilling our blood in some shithole of an Iraqi town or struggling to make ends meet after the economy tanks. Fuck Bush. \*\* Back in the 2000 election, the big issue was what each of the major candidates planned to do with the huge budget surplus. Now we’ve seen what Bush has done with it, even before this expensive war. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/24 "2003-03-30T08:20:35Z")
You know it is really hard to say how the war is going Yes, we have made a lot of progress in 12 days- but we were led to believe that this war would be over very quickly. The Iraqi Army would give up as soon as Bush shook his fist at Saddam. The Republican Guard would fold, and someone from the Special Repbulican Gaurd would stick a shiv in Saddam’s back the first week. We are bombing Baghdad from everywhere- bombing sorties are now being flown from Iraqi airfields, and from Missouri cornfields about 75 miles west of the college town from whence **RexDart** wrote his OP. Some of these bombs are bound to fall on Iraqi civilians, and it would appear we may have fewer cruise missiles and precision guided bombs than we will need to do the job. The Repbulican Guards can’t make any organized massed armored counter-attack against US forces. They would be blown to bits by American air power. The Republican Guards are not stupid enough to fight a conventional fight against American forces. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/25 "2003-03-30T08:37:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RobbieFal \* > \*\*the 148 deaths in GW1 (not 293) were over the entire month of war, I presume. > > That month included the air war and the 100 hour invasion. > > Invading Iraq is not close to Invading Kuwait. > > The deal isn’t that we’re still fighting 12 days into this. > > The deal is that Rumsfield under-equipped the ground troops and we have supplies for a MONTH of war. > > The deal is that the planning for this war was totally flawed. It was a god damn rush into war on a tip by our agents, a bombing and then an invasion without the month of bombing that occured in GW1. > > Ugh… > > and just wait until Saddam is killed. The conflict has yet to begin. Can you say “power vaccum”? Or do you think the US would risk elections that could elect Iraqis who want the US out? \*\* The deal is that you’re just whistling terrors in the dark, we have no way of knowing what is going to happen. You’re projecting your heebie jeebies on real life, and I wish you’d just stop. Now is the time for honest analysis and appraisel, not guesswork and wild, baseless speculation. And I’m including soldiers killed in rear areas in the total deaths figure. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/26 "2003-03-30T09:00:02Z")
[Point-Counterpoint: The War On Iraq](http://www.theonion.com/onion3911/pt_the_war_on_iraq.html) > [@](#): > > No it won’t. > > It just won’t. None of that will happen. > > You’re getting worked up over nothing. Everything is going to be fine. So just relax, okay? You’re really overreacting. > > “This war will not put an end to anti-Americanism; it will fan the flames of hatred even higher”? _edited to remove copyrighted material - see below - UB_ ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/27 "2003-03-30T09:23:17Z")
ummm… wasn’t there something about a rolling start? Doesn’t one suppose that the US/UK/(poland) and 13 countries-to-be-named-later coalition has a rather healthy foothold in Iraq? And shan’t one consider the fact that it is really more of a political than a military snafu just now. A military victory would be so simple and quick. But the political fallout (of the inevitable civilian massacre) would be impossible for anyone involved to survive. As for the supply lines-- so the guys in the Bradley’s got a little ahead of the milk wagon… big deal. So some embedee had to do with one MRE a day. IIRC, they have about 3000 calories in them-- not 1300 (maybe I’m wrong-- sorry). Rest and refit. It’s a normal part of a invasion. Rumsfeld didn’t really fuck up all that bad… the force in the theatre right now was never meant to do the whole job by itself. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/28 "2003-03-30T09:27:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5 time champ \* > **…but we were led to believe that this war would be over very quickly.** Hold up. For the past few months, our military leaders, Rumsfeld, and Bush have all said that this would not be a 15 minute conflict- It was the media who portrayed it as such. Now if you are foolish enough to believe everything you see and hear out of the mouths of the Dan Rathers & Wolf Blitzers of the world, then so be it; however if you actually pay attention to the original speakers, then you wouldn’t have been led to believe anything so ridiculous as thinking an entire **military campaign** would be ‘quick’. ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/29 "2003-03-30T09:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > Frankly, this whole thing could have been over by now if we’d gone in carpet bombing the place, but we haven’t and we won’t because, hard as it is for me to believe, the Shrub is actually running this thing with **massive consideration for the Iraqi people**. Try convincing the Iraqis of that!!! Maybe the media reports I’ve seen have been portraying things wrongly, but it seems to me that this gentle accurate bombing policy isn’t exactly winning hearts and minds to encourage an uprising. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/30 "2003-03-30T09:29:37Z")
yup-- think i’m wrong about the MRE calories… I guess I was figuring on the number of calories from a day’s rations (maybe about 3 MRE’s or 3600 kcals or so?) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/31 "2003-03-30T10:12:04Z")
I still can’t believe anyone who has read Collounsbury’s thread on GD, or even paid any attention to what’s going on in the rest of the world, really thinks we’ll come out of this with the world, especially the Middle East, thinking we’re some kind of great heroes. I especially can’t believe that anyone really thinks that terrorism won’t go way up with this action. I can at least respect the people who acknowledge this (or believe that the benefits are worth the increase), and discuss reasons it won’t be as bad as we think, or ways to deal with it. But to think that the threat of terrorism will be reduced by war is completely unsupported by any sort of reality, and I’m frankly stunned that anyone at all here at the SDMB would actually believe this. ---
**Author:** ![Erroneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71c47a/32.png) [@Erroneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erroneous)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/32 "2003-03-30T11:04:55Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=MPVXYJTY55FWCCRBAELCFFA?type=politicsNews&storyID=2472167](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=MPVXYJTY55FWCCRBAELCFFA?type=politicsNews&storyID=2472167) Look! **RobbieFal** posted a Jew RL! ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/33 "2003-03-30T11:14:48Z")
Right after the ‘jhtml’ nonetheless!!! They even have their own mark-up language… ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/34 "2003-03-30T12:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Andy \* > \*\*Try convincing the Iraqis of that!!! > Maybe the media reports I’ve seen have been portraying things wrongly, but it seems to me that this gentle accurate bombing policy isn’t exactly winning hearts and minds to encourage an uprising. \*\* And there’s the rub. It’s not so great now, we’re getting some pretty bad press. If we step up the bombing intensity and win this thing quick, multiply those incidental civilian casualties tenfold and the public outrage by untold factors. Boy, would those Eurotrash socialists be pissed at us then, we’d never get another thing done _ever_ in the “international community”. Heck, we might as well resign from the UN considering the total lack of influence we’d have there afterwards. But if we don’t, we’re staring at tens of thousands of American casualties over a period of years, and then we’re fucked at home. So damned if we do, damned if we don’t. It’s _that_ position we’ve been placed into that I resent. That’s why we’re fucked. There’s just no way to come out of this thing in a good position. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/35 "2003-03-30T12:15:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > \*\*But to think that the threat of terrorism will be reduced by war is completely unsupported by any sort of reality, and I’m frankly stunned that anyone at all here at the SDMB would actually believe this. \*\* Since the only one that posted anything even remotely resembling that position was me, I’ll point out that it was a _satirical_ piece from the Onion. It satirises the “don’t worry” position of some war hawks. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/36 "2003-03-30T16:23:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*no, they will just surrender, RobbieFal! And why would they want us out, we’re America, the king of cool! Now give me some oil! \*\* [Fonzi on] AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa![/Fonzi off] ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/37 "2003-03-30T16:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Right after the ‘jhtml’ nonetheless!!! They even have their own mark-up language… \*\* Ha! This Jew likes that. From now on, I’m gonna call it “JewHTML” instead of jhtml… Gentiles beware! We’re taking over the software world now! Sam ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/38 "2003-03-30T18:10:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spit \* > \*\*Hold up. > > For the past few months, our military leaders, Rumsfeld, and Bush have all said that this would not be a 15 minute conflict- It was the media who portrayed it as such. > Now if you are foolish enough to believe everything you see and hear out of the mouths of the Dan Rathers & Wolf Blitzers of the world, then so be it; however if you actually pay attention to the original speakers, then you wouldn’t have been led to believe anything so ridiculous as thinking an entire **military campaign** would be ‘quick’. \*\* No you hold up **Spit** I am certainly not foolish enough to believe anything out the mouths the Faux News Channel, nor everything from CBS or CNN. But Bush and Rumsfeld played their little game of bait & switch with the American people in the media. Yes, officially the American people were warned that this war wouldn’t be over in a week. But you don’t “sell” a war to the American people by telling them how difficult it is going to be. Rumsfeld’s strategy was ‘shock & awe’, decapitate the Iraqi leadership and go in lightly with ground troops. It’s obvious that Rumsfeld has fallen for the oldest-trick-in-the-book, air power will win the war. I was against this starting this war, especially without UN approval. I now reluctantly support Bush’s foolish war, since he has put American troop in harms way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/39 "2003-03-30T18:22:16Z")
I concur. I would have done damn near anything to stop this from happening. I would have daubed myself with shit and set my hair on fire. But its too late. As odious and vile as it is, I can’t convince myself that there is any course of action but to go ahead with it. I would gladly accept a UN brokered cease fire, followed with intrusive inspections and a UN guaranteed election (Paging Dr. Carter, Dr. Jimmy Carter…) but I have no hope that the other side would buy it. So here we are. I have to hope that it is the _Iraqi_ soldiers who suffer and die, _his_ children orphaned, _his_ wife widowed, _his_ home and hopes reduced to rubble. I cannot hope otherwise. But I promise I will never, _ever_ forgive the men who forced this prayer upon me, so help me God. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179/40 "2003-03-30T18:31:00Z")
From Richard Perle - > [@](#): > > Support for Saddam, including within his military organization, will collapse at the first whiff of gunpowder. Cheney has made similar comments. So, no, the media was not the one leading us astray. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-f-cking-screwed-re-the-war/165179.md?page=3)