# We are SO FUCKED (Ruth Bader Ginsburg died tonight) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959 "2020-09-18T23:42:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/181 "2020-09-22T20:17:24Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I firmly believe it’s a two step forwards, one step back kinda of thing in the US. Where progress is made for awhile (civil rights for homosexuals, hate crimes, etc.) **until white people get scared** and demand to remain incredibly stupid and there is a backlash. Thus, I eagerly await the day when White people are no longer the majority, merely the largest of the minorities. That way, the rest of us can stop fearing the temper tantrums of the worst members of that demographic. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/182 "2020-09-22T20:17:55Z")
Depending on how we define conservatism, I’d say it is an existential threat. Terms like originalism and strict constructionist seem benignly academic on the surface, but that definition of conservatism insists on interpreting a Constitution and viewing democracy as it would have been seen through the lens of 18th Century thinkers, nearly all of whom were racist and patriarchal. I don’t think those views and that definition of conservatism is compatible with the pluralistic kind of society that we’ve evolved into. So yeah, in my mind, it’s an existential threat. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/183 "2020-09-22T20:23:52Z")
You put it very well, I think, and I will just say that maybe I have a bit more faith than you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/184 "2020-09-22T20:24:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Tamerlane](#): > > > > But that is absolutely what they believe. You may be dumbfounded that they believe it, but I think they are 100% sincere about it. Many conservatives view liberalism as an existential threat to their concept of America and American values. Much as many liberals view conservatism as an existential threat in the same vein. > > I don’t view conservatism as an “existential threat” at all. But I DO view the CURRENT ADMINISTRATION as an existential threat to me and mine because of how often they (Trump and his followers) have stood up over the past four years a declared that people like myself - either of my background, my beliefs, or my practices - are evil, not American, and not worthy of being here. THAT is the existential threat to me and mine. It’s not a matter of differing beliefs, it’s the belief that if you are different _you don’t belong in this country._ If you aren’t them _you are not American._ THAT is the problem. I don’t declare that conservatism is an existential threat; I declare that the Republican Party has irrevocably BECOME an existential threat that is becoming more radical by the day.\* And I use the word “declare” advisedly. It carries the truth that this is factual in a way that is unavailable to “view.” \*I hope I needn’t belabor the inherent irresolvable contradiction between “conservative” and “radical.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/185 "2020-09-22T20:24:46Z")
I think that this is my view as well. We need a new kind of America in which white conservatives can no longer reliably use appeals to race to win elections, and I would hope that if we ever get to a time when whites are no longer a majority, maybe then whites could accept that it’s in their interests to have a political system based on pluralistic principles. However, I don’t think we can just assume that this will happen; conservatives elected Trump because they’re scared. They grew up with pictures of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Abraham Lincoln hanging in their first grade home rooms and until 2008 had only known an America that had been led by white men. Many people fear what America will look like when we’re no longer known as a white majority country. This is one reason why I am fearful about the immediate future - because I think a lot of white conservatives will justify, look the other way, or outright encourage incivility, as they already have. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/186 "2020-09-22T20:59:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I don’t declare that conservatism is an existential threat; I declare that the Republican Party has irrevocably BECOME an existential threat that is becoming more radical by the day.\* It’s the same Republican party it’s been for decades. They’ve always pandered to, and relied on the votes of, the same 40% of people who now identify as Trump supporters (and who we now realize are so far detached from reality). Those voters, and the kind of people they elect, hasn’t changed. They’ve always wanted to control the judiciary, to neuter the federal government, to allow the Christianization of government, and to make corporations the most important thing in the country. The only thing I’ve seen change is 1) white supremacy isn’t a dog-whistle dirty little secret anymore and 2) the tolerance of the leaders of the Republicans to put up with racism, hypocrisy, and institutional degradation to get what they want. This isn’t a new Republican party. It’s a successful Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/187 "2020-09-22T21:01:21Z")
I _THINK_ you mistyped _successor_. Although “successful” also fits, regrettably. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/188 "2020-09-22T21:15:28Z")
I did mean successful. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/189 "2020-09-22T21:20:09Z")
Don’t apologize. It’s _still_ not conservative, though. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/190 "2020-09-22T21:33:26Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Terms like originalism and strict constructionist seem benignly academic on the surface . . . Also, the framers were so significantly divided, “originalism” can’t possibly mean anything. Ask Jefferson and Hamilton the same question, and the answers are going to be wildly different. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/191 "2020-09-22T21:57:22Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > **Why** is it good governance to not hold hearings to replace a justice who died 9 months before an election, and then hold hearings to replace a justice who died 7 weeks before an election? Republicans are not about “good governance”. They are not remotely interested in good governance. They are about taking and controlling power by any means necessary, so that they and their close supporters can personally benefit. That’s all. That is the full and total reason that they hold office. This is why Trump is an absolutely perfect president as far as they are concerned. He is the ultimate symbol of today’s Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/192 "2020-09-22T23:07:27Z")
There’s an old saw that applies here, Those who despise government, when they rule, do so despicably. (I’m paraphrasing!) ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/193 "2020-09-22T23:22:34Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > There’s an old saw that applies here, > > Those who despise government, when they rule, do so despicably. > (I’m paraphrasing!) This sounds reminiscent of the aphorism that Republicans believe the government is incompetent, then get elected and are determined to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/194 "2020-09-23T13:21:43Z")
So the latest theme I’m hearing is that _Democrats are the hypocrites_ for insisting that the Senate wait until after the election, because last time we insisted they they shouldn’t. And it looks like at least 51 R senators say they intend to vote for Trump’s nominee. We are so truly fucked. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/195 "2020-09-23T13:51:06Z")
I didn’t really expect them to break ranks, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Murkowski and Collins, having been battered by the men of the party, stay in the kitchen and make cookies while the men of the house go out and bring home yet more court justices. As Obama said a few years ago, elections have consequences. Boy do they ever. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/196 "2020-09-23T13:54:14Z")
I’m surprised about Romney – his vote for conviction on the impeachment charges had me thinking he might actually have principles. But I guess he only has principles when he knows they won’t make any difference. What are the odds Trump’s pick is so odious four R senators won’t support her? (I’m guessing close to zero.) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/197 "2020-09-23T13:59:22Z")
To be completely honest, I don’t know much about Amy Coney Barrett other than she’s conservative. There’s nothing inherently wrong with having someone with a conservative tilt on the bench. It’s the process by which this has all happened that is rotten, and more than that, the politicization of the judiciary is at a level not seen in ages, if ever. What’s happening at the district and circuit court levels is in some ways even scarier. If the GOP has 4 more years to damage, there’s a good chance they’ll have 40 or 400 more years. It might cease to be a republic before long. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/198 "2020-09-23T14:08:24Z")
Here’s what I know about her (thanks to **Rick Kitchen** ): > [@The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making Part Deux (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making-part-deux/911083/3832): > > The judge that is being touted as the front runner for the Supreme Court is a member of a cult within the Catholic Church called The People of Praise. Margaret Atwood said she based The Hadmaid’s Tale on this cult. Every person in the cult is assigned a head, if they’re male, or a handmaid, if they’re female. They control whom the members marry, and how they raise their children. They also believe that men have total control over their wives. Barrett also says that a “legal career is but a … ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/199 "2020-09-23T14:23:11Z")
My one hope is that as far as I know Romney has stated that he’ll give a tRump pick a hearing. I don’t think he’s committed himself to approval. It’s a very slim hope. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/200 "2020-09-23T14:26:27Z")
We need 4 R senators to vote no. Murkowski, Collins and Romney (maybe) make 3. Think there’s one more R senator with a spine? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959.md?page=11)