# We are SO FUCKED (Ruth Bader Ginsburg died tonight) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959 "2020-09-18T23:42:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/121 "2020-09-21T21:11:08Z")
Yeah, I get that. But going back to the last election for example, a _little_ bit more likable Hillary, a little less bullshit email story, and we wouldn’t be in this mess. I don’t think Trump would have been elected if his supporters in 2016 knew what a disaster he would be. I think a lot of people don’t want to admit it out loud, but they only want him to be re-elected now because they just don’t like Democratic policies, not that they have any great love of Trump. Mind you, I _think_ this and hope its true, hence my possibly misguided faith in the American citizenry, but I surely don’t know it for a fact. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/122 "2020-09-21T21:12:56Z")
His approval rating is about what it always has been. He is doing what his base wants, making the libtards pay and cracking brown skulls. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/123 "2020-09-21T21:13:48Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Really? Why not? _Defend_ McConnell’s actions, please. Pretty sure **Velocity** ’s not interested in defending McConnell’s actions in 2016, and is merely content with the fact that he has to live with them. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/124 "2020-09-21T21:14:08Z")
Okay, fair enough on his approval ratings. But his “poll” approval ratings at this point are horrendous. He’s getting killed practically everywhere it matters. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/125 "2020-09-21T21:15:27Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Have you no more faith in the American experiment than this? Have you no more faith than this in your fellow Americans? And have you seen Trump’s approval ratings? Clearly, a majority of people don’t like him at all, and the sizable lead Biden has over him now should be an indication that democracy is doing just fine, despite the last 3 years, and we will have a reasonable person in the White House come January 21st. I think that there’s a different kind of experiment that’s taking place now; America is a laboratory for democracy on one hand, and it’s also a laboratory for authoritarianism on the other. Faith in my fellow Americans? Pfff, how did we get to this point in the first place? Trump isn’t a comet that smashed into us from outer space; he’s a symptom of our political dysfunction and the unwillingness to compromise and cooperate. He is a symptom of anti-democratic thought on a very wide scale. Telling us that a majority of people don’t like him is of little comfort. A majority of people in the country didn’t vote for him in the first place. In fact a majority of people have actually not voted for the Republican party. They won power despite not having a majority of votes - not only is this true in two of the last five presidential elections; this is true in congressional elections as well. They have simply managed to use ethnic majorities, loopholes in the law, and political maps to their advantage. Democracy is not doing just fine - at all. I do agree with you that there is still hope left. It’s not too late, and we have to have at least some faith and hope to hold onto. But I refuse to accept this pollyannish view that this is just a setback or another election; I know too much about world history and political affairs to believe this. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/126 "2020-09-21T21:18:16Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I don’t think Trump would have been elected if his supporters in 2016 knew what a disaster he would be. Trump actually ran as a candidate in 2000. He ran as a Reform Party candidate and his campaign was considered a joke, which is how he should have been treated in 2015-16. Times have changed, and so has the country - and not in a very positive way, I’m afraid. Sure, a little less about emails. That never should have been a serious story to begin with. What does it say about our state of affairs that it is? What does it say about our state of affairs that the current president literally advised people to ingest bleach to get rid of COVID? FFS, mate. Wake up. The house is on fire. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/127 "2020-09-21T21:20:54Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > Really? Why not? _Defend_ McConnell’s actions, please. > > Two wrongs don’t make a right. To make a habit/precedent/rule out of “We don’t confirm Supreme Court nominees in an election year” is a nonsensical, needless rule. Any time there is a vacancy on the Supreme Court, it should be dealt with within a few months, regardless of whether we’re 1 day away from Election Day or 1000. > > That rule should be done away with, if it ever really existed to begin with. That’s not a defense, it’s a kindergarten lesson. Let’s try this again. How can the actions of the Republican Senate Leader in 2016 and 2020 with regards to SCOTUS openings in election years be defended, _in their totality_? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/128 "2020-09-21T21:21:42Z")
I have to say that it’s adorable that you think we’re a democracy. Huge swaths of the population are going to be prevented from voting and he will claim victory with support from crony judges he’s installed. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/129 "2020-09-21T21:32:22Z")
**madmonk28** , what is a “huge swath”? If you give me a precise definition, I will tell you what I think of this idea. Hopefully you will find it adorable also. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/130 "2020-09-21T21:33:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Faith in my fellow Americans? Pfff, how did we get to this point in the first place? Trump isn’t a comet that smashed into us from outer space; he’s a symptom of our political dysfunction and the unwillingness to compromise and cooperate. He is a symptom of anti-democratic thought on a very wide scale. He is evidence that a lot of people can make a completely misguided and horrible choice for whom they want to lead the country. This is nothing new in America. It will be rectified come November. And accept it or not, it is in no way “pollyanish”. I am optimistic for legitimate reasons, the first of which is that Biden is very likely to win in November. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/131 "2020-09-21T21:40:57Z")
Voter suppression is a well established tactic of the GOP, especially of Black voters In the south which was made easier by the Supreme Court not too long ago. You also might have noticed a lot of talk about the post office recently. I have never met a smart optimist. > **[Voter suppression, then and now](https://www.marketplace.org/2020/09/18/voter-suppression-then-and-now/)** > > From poll taxes and literacy tests to strict voter ID laws and consolidating polling places. > **[How Republicans Undermined Ex-Felon Voting Rights in Florida (Published 2020)](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/us/florida-felons-voting.html)** > > It’s a cautionary tale about the messy process of citizen-led ballot initiatives and how a dominant political party can exert its power. > **[11 ways to fix America’s fundamentally broken democracy](https://www.vox.com/21336225/voting-rights-senate-electoral-college-gerrymandering-supreme-court)** > > A plan for the democratic revolution America needs. > **[How Black Americans still face disproportionate barriers to the ballot box in...](https://www.businessinsider.com/why-black-americans-still-face-obstacles-to-voting-at-every-step-2020-6)** > > Black Americans see disparities in staying on the voter rolls, being able to successfully vote in-person, and having their mail-in ballots counted. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/132 "2020-09-21T22:13:38Z")
He is the symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. America is profoundly sick and in an advance state of decay. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/133 "2020-09-21T22:19:10Z")
If you want to precisely define “huge swaths”, please do so, and I can reply to what you said earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/134 "2020-09-21T22:21:28Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > He is the symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. America is profoundly sick and in an advance state of decay. Did you feel like that when Obama was elected twice? I have no idea, I’m just trying to get where you are coming from. But America is not in any such decay, for chrissakes! Yes, we have problems, but now as always, things are getting better for everyone. We will see steps backward, but over time will continue to improve. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/135 "2020-09-21T22:22:38Z")
To use Bricker’s famous monopoly analogy. Your playing monopoly with your “friend” at his house, and after landing on go he reaches to collect $400. When you complain he says “Its a house rule. If you land on go you collect $400 instead of $200. My house my rules”. You Grumble but the game goes on. A few turns later you land on go, and when you try to collect he says “No that rule only applies to me, not to you. Besides, I thought you didn’t like that rule.” Is there any point in continuing the game? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/136 "2020-09-21T22:24:13Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Uh, I think for a lot of folks, including people previously posting in this thread, the answer to both questions is pretty clearly no. I mean, you may disagree, but I’m not sure how they could make their views clearer or how you can not understand where they’re coming from. Sure, I agree with this. I was being a bit rhetorical and not addressing this to specific people in this thread. I do try to be a bit more careful about this sort of thing outside of the Pit, but what you say is fair. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/137 "2020-09-21T22:29:34Z")
Uh, you know we’re pretty much a third world shithole when it comes to quality of life indicators and I know there’s a reason I haven’t been to my office since March, but I just can’t remember why. Oh yeah, because 43% of Americans are anti-science morons. Here’s some more info to help you get up to speed on where we are since you watched Schoolhouse Rock. “American experiment,” who the fuck talks like that anymore? > **[How the Supreme Court revived Jim Crow voter suppression tactics](https://www.vox.com/21445460/supreme-court-voter-suppression-jim-crow-carol-anderson-shelby-county)** > > Carol Anderson explains what happens when our voting rights laws start to crumble. > **[‘Leading the way on voter suppression.’ Texas is ground zero in voting rights...](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/Leading-the-way-on-voter-suppression-Texas-15578236.php)** > > The Republicans who run state government have made Texas a national leader in voting... > **[Conservative judicial decisions keep boosting GOP voter suppression](https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/09/florida-felon-voting-fines/)** > > A ruling mandating Floridians pay fines before voting is only the latest way judges have made it harder to access the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/138 "2020-09-21T22:39:41Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Here’s some more info to help you get up to speed on where we are since you watched Schoolhouse Rock. That’s a good one! I’ll have to remember it when I too wish to drop to the level of childish insults. In any case, it doesn’t appear that you are interested in defining “huge swaths” to me, so we can discuss your earlier assertion. So be it. I’ve got more important things to do anyway. Coincidentally, “I Am Just a Bill” was recently queued up in youtube, and I’ve been meaning to watch it. Thanks for the reminder!!! ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/FFroMQlKiag/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/FFroMQlKiag?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/139 "2020-09-21T22:48:34Z")
Dude, I gave you multiple links on voter suppression in the US. The fact that you got any in the pit makes it your lucky day. You’re one of those people who think America is special and well gosh darn it if a few thousand blacks are disenfranchised and if the governor of Georgia didn’t go to the rightful winner, we’ll by golly we’ll just have to try harder. We’re special because why? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959/140 "2020-09-21T23:03:12Z")
Yes, you did, but you made a statement about how many votes will be suppressed this time around. I have no doubt that some will be. But I cannot have a discussion with you about the degree to which this will happen unless you define “swaths” precisely. That’s all I’m asking for. As for this _nonsense_: > [@](#): > > You’re one of those people who think America is special and well gosh darn it if a few thousand blacks are disenfranchised and if the governor of Georgia didn’t go to the rightful winner, we’ll by golly we’ll just have to try harder. I am sad to say that you have affirmed my belief that the Dope still has people like you, who make totally unfounded opinions about someone based only on a few statements they’ve made here and there. What kind of person, in their right mind, says something about someone they’ve never met, and have absolutely no evidence of, about how that person feels about disenfranchised blacks? Anyway, sure, America is special. Always has been despite our multitude of flaws, and hopefully always will be. But I am so far from the blind optimist you _think_ you see in me that you have no idea. We have many, many issues that need to be addressed, and voter suppression is one of them. Please, in the future, just stick to what I write, and not what you dream up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-so-fucked-ruth-bader-ginsburg-died-tonight/920959.md?page=8)