# We can actually get rid of nearly all unauthorized immigrants **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304 "2016-03-27T02:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/21 "2016-03-27T14:56:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Explain to me why this wouldn’t work: > > Require e-verify for all companies and for all professional licensing and for all business licensing. All employers must run e-verify on their current workforces. Understanding that there will be errors, employees who come up with a mismatch will have 90 days to go to their local Social Security office and straighten things out. All employees who do not have a real SS# issued to them will be fired. > > WOuldn’t this get rid of pretty much all unauthorized immigrants very quickly? The same reason requiring all legal immigrants to have documents doesn’t work - enforcement. Just requiring something doesn’t make it happen. Small employers will still just pay in cash, etc. and find other ways to avoid the system. There is no easy way. This won’t magically fix the problem, just like you can’t just magically can’t, say, build a giant wall that, magically, the Mexicans will pay for. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/22 "2016-03-27T15:04:45Z")
Does this mean I have to contact the government and run an e-verify if I hire a plumber? That sounds like a PITA, I might pay cash to avoid the hassle, even though I’m pretty sure my plumber is legal. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/23 "2016-03-27T15:13:42Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Does this mean I have to contact the government and run an e-verify if I hire a plumber? That sounds like a PITA, I might pay cash to avoid the hassle, even though I’m pretty sure my plumber is legal. You don’t employ a plumber any more than you employ a store clerk. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/24 "2016-03-27T15:18:18Z")
My plumber is self-employed, though, unlike the store clerk. My electrician is part of a small business, I guess, of about 4 employees. Maybe they have some license that could be tied to e-verify. The guy I hired to put in a fence has a corporate name, but appears to be just a guy. I’ve never seen any evidence there are other employees there. For that matter, there are tons of people making money selling stuff on ebay, etc., who aren’t “employed” by anyone. So I think this is a significant hole in the requirement. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/25 "2016-03-27T15:23:14Z")
Plumbers need a state license. Also a business license. Even self-employed, you’re hiring a service, not an employee. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/26 "2016-03-27T15:26:51Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Does this mean I have to contact the government and run an e-verify if I hire a plumber? That sounds like a PITA, I might pay cash to avoid the hassle, even though I’m pretty sure my plumber is legal. Most states have a minimum on the number of employees an employer must have for this requirement to kick in, varying from 5 to 30 employees. If you are contracting with individuals, you will probably not hit this minimum. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/27 "2016-03-27T15:39:21Z")
The expense and effort it would take to make it work (if it’s even possible to enforce, which I doubt) would cost far, far more than any negative effects from undocumented immigration. **adaher** , your plan would weaken the country and make it poorer. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/28 "2016-03-27T16:25:12Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Plumbers need a state license. Also a business license. I can still hire a non-licensed one if I want to, and pay him in cash. I wouldn’t, but some people would, to save a few bucks. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/29 "2016-03-27T17:13:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Explain to me why this wouldn’t work: > > Require e-verify for all companies and for all professional licensing and for all business licensing. All employers must run e-verify on their current workforces. Understanding that there will be errors, employees who come up with a mismatch will have 90 days to go to their local Social Security office and straighten things out. All employees who do not have a real SS# issued to them will be fired. > > WOuldn’t this get rid of pretty much all unauthorized immigrants very quickly? Something similar was tried in [Alabama](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/undocumented-workers-immigration-alabama) & [Georgia](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias-harsh-immigration-law-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/) a few years ago. It had surprising results (for its backers). > [@](#): > > The vast scope of the law turned Alabama into an unprecedented test for the anti-immigration movement. If self-deportation didn’t work there, it’s hard to imagine where it could. Early reports suggested success: undocumented immigrants appeared to flee Alabama en masse. But two years later, HB 56 is in ruins. Its most far-reaching elements have proved unconstitutional, unworkable, or politically unsustainable. Elected officials, social workers, clergy, activists, and residents say an initial immigrant evacuation that roiled their communities ended long ago. Many who fled have returned to their old homes. > > Now Alabama is back where it started, waiting for a solution from Washington that may never come. > [@](#): > > Thanks to the resulting labor shortage, Georgia farmers have been forced to leave millions of dollars’ worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops unharvested and rotting in the fields. It has also put state officials into something of a panic at the damage they’ve done to Georgia’s largest industry… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/30 "2016-03-27T17:41:38Z")
Is this before or after we make Mexico buy us a wall? I’m sure glad someone is looking out for our interest in keeping our shitty, low-paying jobs for Americans only. America–we may not have a world-class particle accelerator or research on revolutiuonary stem cell therapies, but we are first in janitorial services! Fuck yeah! Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/31 "2016-03-27T21:27:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And the budget hit will be significant since the government pockets billions in taxes from illegal labor. WHAT?! I thought only the job creators paid significant taxes! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/32 "2016-03-27T22:04:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What will they do? In theory, they can’t collect benefits. But no, I’m under no illusions that all would go home. Some can support themselves, some can be supported by legal relatives. Still others work in jobs where verification is spotty at best(nannies to the rich and political). You forgot organized crime. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/33 "2016-03-27T22:06:25Z")
[jadedcynic] I have long been of the opinion that the reason why there are so many illegal entry workers in the US is that it suits big business just fine to have “illegal” workers - and note, I don’t say ‘non-American’ workers, or ‘immigrant’ workers, since I don’t see why it should be a problem if those two categories exist in large numbers. But specifically, the convenience of having their workers _officially be illegal_ must make life much easier for a certain type of employer. Not only can you pay them not very much, since they come from a poorer country and are relatively happy with quite low wages, _but also_ - if they get bolshy and start demanding some rights, you can threaten to get them deported! That’ll keep 'em under the thumb good and proper. Which is why they keep being left in this limbo state, where the government knows they’re there, but won’t either deport them or legalise them. They can’t deport them since they’re doing useful jobs and it would fuck up the economy good and proper - and the government really knows this. They won’t legalise them, because the only people who are actually advantaged by that are the immigrants themselves - and they don’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/34 "2016-03-28T00:26:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I have long been of the opinion that the reason why there are so many illegal entry workers in the US is that it suits big business just fine to have “illegal” workers - and note, I don’t say ‘non-American’ workers, or ‘immigrant’ workers, since I don’t see why it should be a problem if those two categories exist in large numbers. But specifically, the convenience of having their workers officially be illegal must make life much easier for a certain type of employer. Not only can you pay them not very much, since they come from a poorer country and are relatively happy with quite low wages, but also - if they get bolshy and start demanding some rights, you can threaten to get them deported! That’ll keep 'em under the thumb good and proper. > > Which is why they keep being left in this limbo state, where the government knows they’re there, but won’t either deport them or legalise them. They can’t deport them since they’re doing useful jobs and it would fuck up the economy good and proper - and the government really knows this. They won’t legalise them, because the only people who are actually advantaged by that are the immigrants themselves - and they don’t vote. got it in one. there are huge industries that rely on illegal labor. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/35 "2016-03-28T01:48:57Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > . . . Which is why they keep being left in this limbo state, where the government knows they’re there, but won’t either deport them or legalise them. They can’t deport them since they’re doing useful jobs and it would fuck up the economy good and proper - and the government really knows this. They won’t legalise them, because the only people who are actually advantaged by that are the immigrants themselves - and they don’t vote. And it gets worse: if they aren’t deported, but aren’t allowed to earn a living, that forces them into crime. At least the lesser crime of forging right-to-work documentation is relatively victimless, far more so than burglary and robbery. Thank God we dodged the bullet of forcing them to be uneducated, and of forcing them to die without any medical care at all. But now we’re hell-bent on forcing them to crime. (If all twelve million were forcibly deported, that would lead to a crime-rate spike in the destination countries. The countries of origin don’t want them back, certainly not all of them in one mass migration. Not to mention, the people of the U.S. would never vote for a political party that engaged in “ethnic cleansing” on that scale.) Only a truly comprehensive plan can hope to work, with both increased border security and a path to permanent legal residence. For Fuck’s Sake, we don’t need apartheid here! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/36 "2016-03-28T03:37:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The expense and effort it would take to make it work (if it’s even possible to enforce, which I doubt) would cost far, far more than any negative effects from undocumented immigration. > > **adaher** , your plan would weaken the country and make it poorer. Isn’t that also true of the SS# requirement which started the whole fake documentation industry to begin with? Since e-verify is the easiest way to stop illegal unemployment and you and many others here deem even that unworkable, then doesn’t that mean that going after employers is pointless? Shouldn’t we just repeal the 1986 law, stop requiring documentation, and let businesses hire whoever they want? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/37 "2016-03-28T04:13:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, I thought we all agreed that going after employers so that it was impossible for them to get jobs was something we should be doing. > > So back to the original subject, do you have any objection to making e-verify a universal requirement? I don’t agree at all. Why should the government meddle at all in who hires who? The government’s only role in employment should be enforcing contracts. Your proposal would be massively expensive, intrusive, and harmful to businesses and employees. Businesses already struggle with the enormous and very expensive paperwork requirements that the government imposes on them whenever they hire anyone. For starters, business owners already have to keep track of earnings, report those earning to the IRS, calculate the correct amount of several different taxes and remove that amount from paychecks. They have to keep copies of photos IDs from every employee along with the Social Security stuff that’s already been mentioned. They had to collect information on race, gender, veteran status and all that jazz. Then along came the Obama Administration, with its new health care law, where many employers have to take part in the very complicated process of documenting that their employees have health insurance. And that’s not the only way in which the Obama Administration imposed expensive paperwork requirements. There are also the new EEOC rules for some businesses. [Read one owner’s description of the process here](http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2016/02/new-eeoc-payroll-reporting-rule-proposed-i-am-officially-exhausted-with-this-administration.html?doing_wp_cron=1459138121.6865839958190917968750). And now here you are proposing that the government force businesses to waste even more time and money on useless $%#&. > [@](#): > > Shouldn’t we just repeal the 1986 law, stop requiring documentation, and let businesses hire whoever they want? Much better. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/38 "2016-03-28T04:17:10Z")
I’m fine with a liberal immigration system. I’m also fine with a tight immigration system. What I can’t stand is a system that is tight on paper and liberal in practice. It’s all a big lie to appease the rubes, but they aren’t stupid and can’t be fooled forever. And actually, I do believe e-verify in concert with other legal methods already on the books would get rid of the bulk of our illegal population. Start making a point of prosecuting people for false documents(which is a felony) and identity theft(big time felony), along with e-verify, biometric entry/exit systems would make things pretty hot for those here illegally. If we think that’s bad, then the laws are bad. We should repeal them. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/39 "2016-03-28T04:27:28Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > WHAT?! I thought only the job creators paid significant taxes! Significant income taxes. Income being the key modifier. Anyways what’s with the unauthorized euphemism? And concerning the verification of legality that’s the government’s job and they don’t want it. It’s not my concern if the guy dropping off pine straw or dirt is here legally or if they pay their taxes. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/40 "2016-03-28T04:31:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The expense and effort it would take to make it work (if it’s even possible to enforce, which I doubt) would cost far, far more than any negative effects from undocumented immigration. > > **adaher** , your plan would weaken the country and make it poorer. The question is should the law only apply when it’s politically convenient? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304.md?page=3)