# We can actually get rid of nearly all unauthorized immigrants **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304 "2016-03-27T02:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/61 "2016-03-28T22:49:59Z")
Question: if e-verify is not feasible, then how is a database tracking every pain prescription in the US by every doctor feasible? [http://finance.yahoo.com/news/federal-officials-advocates-push-pill-040552566.html;\_ylt=AwrC0wy4tPlWFWwAiGKTmYlQ;\_ylu=X3oDMTEyZWx2MDFvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDVklEQzFfMQRzZWMDc2M-](http://finance.yahoo.com/news/federal-officials-advocates-push-pill-040552566.html;_ylt=AwrC0wy4tPlWFWwAiGKTmYlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZWx2MDFvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDVklEQzFfMQRzZWMDc2M-) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/62 "2016-03-28T23:01:45Z")
Because by and large, most doctors want to prevent drug abuse. It’s the sub-set of patients who are trying to get drugs. Do most employers want to end the employment of illegals? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/63 "2016-03-28T23:03:36Z")
Most employers don’t want to do a lot of things, and many of those things are much more burdensome than checking a database. If employers can do background checks they can do e-verify. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/64 "2016-03-29T04:50:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Most employers don’t want to do a lot of things, and many of those things are much more burdensome than checking a database. If employers can do background checks they can do e-verify. But they have to WANT to do e-verify, or at least want accurate results from e-verify, and that’s where the system fails. In too many cases, the employers are perfectly well aware that the employees are not legal; employers have been caught supplying fake documents or otherwise monkeying with the results to make sure the “right” answer comes back. There are cases where a single company has two or more employees using the same social security number; that doesn’t happen in companies that are paying attention. Companies do background checks to protect themselves (from theft, from lawsuits, whatever). They’re doing e-verify, however, to protect some amorphous “other” while simultaneously raising their own labor costs. That’s a pretty major difference in motivation. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/65 "2016-03-29T04:56:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, maybe those jobs should pay more and people should get used to paying fair wages for the work. > > Speaking as a non-Hispanic American born and raised in the US, who _has_ actually mowed lawns, cleaned houses, and built/repaired houses the notion that no American born here is willing to do the work is bullshit. The reason they don’t is that they won’t work for less than minimum wage or suffer abuse the way illegal labor does. So the employers of illegal workers whine “Americans don’t want to do the work” when really the problem is Americans don’t want to, and don’t have to, do the work for starvation wages and abuse. I pay my cleaning lady considerably more than minimum wage, and I’m rarely even home when she works, i can assure you the work conditions aren’t abusive. I haven’t inquired, but i doubt she’s legal. One reason i hire a cleaning person directly is that the (legal, formal) services pay crappy wages, and I’d rather pay the person well enough that she’s likely to stick with the job. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/66 "2016-03-29T05:46:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then agribusiness better get used to paying more. It’s the food consumer who’d need to get used to higher prices. Some foods, e.g. milk, would skyrocket in price without immigrant labor. Most Americans—everyone except unskilled laborers—benefit from these workers. Mass deportations would plunge the country into severe recession. I don’t propose any panacea. A legal guest worker program might be a good idea, although the status quo itself may be working OK. 🙂 But let’s not pretend the clowns on the GOP stage are anything but demagogues and hypocrites. Those that aren’t stupid know that the present illegal immigration is beneficial, on balance; their contrary noise is just part of the GOP agenda: _Distract Americans from real problems by fomenting Hatred and Fear against The Other._ ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/67 "2016-03-29T08:38:25Z")
If illegal immigration is beneficial, then legal immigration is even better. So repeal the laws that limit the numbers of immigrants that can come here. Let everyone come in who meets certain criteria. I don’t ask for much. Let’s have a policy. Right now, we don’t have a policy. We have paper laws to satisfy the rubes, and a wink and a nod to satisfy the business community. That’s some banana republic shit right there. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/68 "2016-03-29T13:10:57Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I pay my cleaning lady considerably more than minimum wage, and I’m rarely even home when she works, i can assure you the work conditions aren’t abusive. I haven’t inquired, but i doubt she’s legal. > > One reason i hire a cleaning person directly is that the (legal, formal) services pay crappy wages, and I’d rather pay the person well enough that she’s likely to stick with the job. Would you not hire an American citizen directly on these same terms? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/69 "2016-03-29T13:21:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If illegal immigration is beneficial, then legal immigration is even better. So repeal the laws that limit the numbers of immigrants that can come here. Let everyone come in who meets certain criteria. > > I don’t ask for much. Let’s have a policy. Right now, we don’t have a policy. We have paper laws to satisfy the rubes, and a wink and a nod to satisfy the business community. That’s some banana republic shit right there. The last immigration reform bill was blocked by Your Party. It wasn’t perfect–but the issue needed to stay alive to appeal to the racist & xenophobic base of Your Party. So sad that Dreadful Trump & Almost as Dreadful Cruz have made the most of this base appeal to the base. But Your Party brought it on itself. Have fun learning to love the candidate Your Party chooses… ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/70 "2016-03-29T13:37:43Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I pay my cleaning lady considerably more than minimum wage, and I’m rarely even home when she works, i can assure you the work conditions aren’t abusive. I haven’t inquired, but i doubt she’s legal. > > One reason i hire a cleaning person directly is that the (legal, formal) services pay crappy wages, and I’d rather pay the person well enough that she’s likely to stick with the job. You pay your possibly illegal cleaning lady more than you would pay a legal cleaning lady from a cleaning service? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/71 "2016-03-29T14:00:30Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > So after we get rid of the illegals, whom do you propose will step up and do the labor that they currently do? > They pick most of our crops > They do a lot of the labor on farms > They build our houses > They clean our houses > They watch our children > They mow our lawns > > I can’t see many US-born people heading out to the farms to do back-breaking labor in exchange for very little money. You might not be willing but Americans do back-breaking labor all the time. It is beside the point though, keeping people in a pseudo-legal status is tantamount to slavery. If we really need all those laborers then amp up the guest worker program, make it easier to immigrate legally. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/72 "2016-03-29T14:15:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Question: if e-verify is not feasible, then how is a database tracking every pain prescription in the US by every doctor feasible? > > [http://finance.yahoo.com/news/federal-officials-advocates-push-pill-040552566.html;\_ylt=AwrC0wy4tPlWFWwAiGKTmYlQ;\_ylu=X3oDMTEyZWx2MDFvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDVklEQzFfMQRzZWMDc2M-](http://finance.yahoo.com/news/federal-officials-advocates-push-pill-040552566.html;_ylt=AwrC0wy4tPlWFWwAiGKTmYlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZWx2MDFvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDVklEQzFfMQRzZWMDc2M-) There aren’t nearly as many doctors in the U.S, and they have a strong incentive to comply with the law. And maybe this won’t work either. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/73 "2016-03-29T14:17:38Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I pay my cleaning lady considerably more than minimum wage, and I’m rarely even home when she works, i can assure you the work conditions aren’t abusive. I haven’t inquired, but i doubt she’s legal. > > One reason i hire a cleaning person directly is that the (legal, formal) services pay crappy wages, and I’d rather pay the person well enough that she’s likely to stick with the job. You are the exception. Most employers pay less to illegals, and therefore legal workers in the same job categories competing for jobs make less too. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/74 "2016-03-29T14:20:58Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > So after we get rid of the illegals, whom do you propose will step up and do the labor that they currently do? > They pick most of our crops > They do a lot of the labor on farms > They build our houses > They clean our houses > They watch our children > They mow our lawns > > I can’t see many US-born people heading out to the farms to do back-breaking labor in exchange for very little money. These types of statements always reek of white supremacy as if it’s beneath the dignity of white people to do these jobs. When the subject of welfare and food stamps comes up, they always say the majority of the recipients are white. Let’s tie these programs to mandatory work. I would even support subsidizing these jobs with childcare and tuition incentives. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/75 "2016-03-29T14:38:58Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I pay my cleaning lady considerably more than minimum wage, and I’m rarely even home when she works, i can assure you the work conditions aren’t abusive. I haven’t inquired, but i doubt she’s legal. > > One reason i hire a cleaning person directly is that the (legal, formal) services pay crappy wages, and I’d rather pay the person well enough that she’s likely to stick with the job. Where I live, cleaning ladies who are not illegal immigrants are extremely rare, if they exist altogether. I remember as a kid my mother had cleaning ladies who were American citizens, but I haven’t seen this in decades. (I do know of one local woman who used to advertise her cleaning lady services - my wife says she was a slightly mentally challenged person.) When I built my house about 20 years ago I called up a “cleaning service” to do the final post-construction cleaning. The woman I spoke to was an American, and she quoted a price that was significantly higher than what we were expecting. I expressed some surprise at the price, but she said if you’re looking for anything less then you want a c"leaning lady", not a “cleaning service”, which is apparently a higher class operation. (What we did is we sent my wife’s cleaning lady over and she did fine.) In sum, I am extremely skeptical of the claim that there are cleaning services staffed by US citizens who are paid less than the going wage for illegal immigrants who generally do these services. FWIW, the going rate for cleaning ladies in this area (NJ) is $11 per hour (you can sometimes get for $10), all cash off-the-books. That’s above minimum wage, but it’s hard work and not very high status work. I don’t believe there are US citizens doing this work for these prices, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/76 "2016-03-29T14:51:54Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > These types of statements always reek of white supremacy as if it’s beneath the dignity of white people to do these jobs. When the subject of welfare and food stamps comes up, they always say the majority of the recipients are white. Let’s tie these programs to mandatory work. I would even support subsidizing these jobs with childcare and tuition incentives. Most of the people on welfare are children, elderly, disabled, or already working; in other words, they’re not candidates for jobs involving backbreaking labor, usually in places far from their residences. There’s not some huge surplus of healthy adults sitting around all day just waiting for jobs in roofing or meatpacking. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/77 "2016-03-29T15:24:37Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Most of the people on welfare are children, elderly, disabled, or already working; in other words, they’re not candidates for jobs involving backbreaking labor, usually in places far from their residences. There’s not some huge surplus of healthy adults sitting around all day just waiting for jobs in roofing or meatpacking. In Maryland, there were 150,000 people on unemployment in Feb 2016. There are over 1,000,000 in California. Aren’t these people healthy adults sitting around all day looking for work? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/78 "2016-03-29T15:28:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > In Maryland, there were 150,000 people on unemployment in Feb 2016. There are over 1,000,000 in California. Aren’t these people healthy adults sitting around all day looking for work? Welfare and unemployment are two different programs. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/79 "2016-03-29T16:09:52Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Welfare and unemployment are two different programs. Thanks for the lesson Captain Obvious. The quote was - “There’s not some huge surplus of healthy adults sitting around all day just waiting for jobs in roofing or meatpacking” yes, yes there is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304/80 "2016-03-29T17:38:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have no objection, so long as no one is under the illusion that it will magically cause 11 million undocumented people to leave the country. I hope not. We’d **really** miss them if they left and it would cause no end of dislocation to the economy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-actually-get-rid-of-nearly-all-unauthorized-immigrants/750304.md?page=5)