# We can "chip" violent criminals to make them incapable of aggression. Should we? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221 "2014-08-22T18:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/81 "2014-08-27T19:08:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Isn’t that one kind of date rape? Date rape is raping a person you are on a date with. It may or may not involve roofie; old-fashioned violence happens too. Slip your date a roofie, etc? Like I said, I’d like more research.I’m not saying I _want_ this to be the case, I was pointing out that you hadn’t specified type of violence, so there might be unintended consequences. I like my steaks.Nope. 1 of 10,000 people **who are about to commit violence**. A distinction of some import. [quote] Right. They might have been about to slap someone in anger, and because of whatever genetic quirk causes the hundredth of the hundredth to die from the chip, they are punished for that minor violence with death. Seems disproportionate. Not all violence is equal. Sometimes violence is the moral choice. Moreover, your plan INVOLVES violence on a huge scale. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/82 "2014-08-27T19:14:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Nope. 1 of 10,000 people **who are about to commit violence**. A distinction of some import. Which is everyone. I’m sure that you’ve shoved someone in childhood or dreamed of being in a fight at least once at _some_ point. Come to think of it, universal chip implantation would make surgery, injections and blood sampling impossible. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/83 "2014-08-27T19:21:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Right. They might have been about to slap someone in anger, and because of whatever genetic quirk causes the hundredth of the hundredth to die from the chip, they are punished for that minor violence with death. …_and_ their irrational\* violent tendencies are removed from the gene pool. So it’s a double win! > [@](#): > > Seems disproportionate. Violence begets violence. You’ve just handed me the chance to tear it out at the root. A few deaths is a small price to pay for world peace. I mean, you’re willing to allow manyfold more deaths, in allowing continued violence - all those spousal slaps that lead to wifebeatings that lead to domestic murder - _those_ guys are only going to get chipped _after_ the first offence. Sucks for their victims, I guess. > [@](#): > > Not all violence is equal. Sometimes violence is the moral choice. Not in a world where _no-one else_ is violent, either. Unless you believe violence is the 'proportionate" response to, say, insults or cheque fraud. > [@](#): > > Moreover, your plan INVOLVES violence on a huge scale. Just at the startup. And not _deadly_ violence. Just the hold-them-down-and-chip-them kind. I believe can live with that. And i don’t think _most_ people will violently resist if it’s clear _everyone_ will be chipped. But I have plans for how to sell it to the world… \*since they _know_ just a slap is a 1 in 10000 death chance… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/84 "2014-08-27T19:23:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which is everyone. I’m sure that you’ve shoved someone in childhood or dreamed of being in a fight at least once at _some_ point. The OP makes it clear that it’s only violent actions that count, not fantasies. And yes, i shoved people, that’s why a 13 start time. And I’d take a 1-in-10,000 chance, myself, for world peace. > [@](#): > > Come to think of it, universal chip implantation would make surgery, injections and blood sampling impossible. None of those are [violence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence). Harmful outcome is inherent in the meaning of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/85 "2014-08-27T19:28:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …_and_ their irrational\* violent tendencies are removed from the gene pool. So it’s a double win! That’s not pacifism, that’s offloading the blame by automating the killing. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And not _deadly_ violence. Just the hold-them-down-and-chip-them kind. Which will likely involve the annihilation of most of the human species. First, you’d have to wage nuclear war on nuclear armed countries since you can’t conquer them without being nuked anyway. Then, you’d have to conquer the survivors, killing everyone who resists. And, you’d have to somehow keep enough infrastructure up to build and install the chips. _Then,_ you’d somehow have to convince the army that committed all that mass slaughter to chip itself. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/86 "2014-08-27T21:15:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > . . . Come to think of it, universal chip implantation would make surgery, injections and blood sampling impossible. There would have to be specific professional exceptions. I’m presuming we’d kind of like to maintain a small military for national defense (just in case the other country decides to un-chip a regiment to come across our border…) Universal obligatory pacifism is dealt with, charmingly, in B.F. Skinner’s “Walden Two.” It’s a light and fluffy idealist daydream, but, in any kind of real practice, it’s absurd. Damon Knight’s “Analogues” (referred to upthread?) is another interesting fictional exploration. There was also a lovely old SF story where a chemical was released world-wide so that everyone felt the pain that they inflicted. If I pop someone in the nose…my nose gets bloodied. Can’t remember the author or title. I’m good with chipping violent felons with their consent. The universal application, not so much. (I sometimes think we might benefit from putting a mild dose of tranquilizers in everyone’s drinking water…) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/87 "2014-08-27T23:09:36Z")
That is what led to Reavers! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/88 "2014-08-27T23:14:51Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > That is what led to Reavers! For being the first to mention this, you get your choice of pastry, delivered by your choice of comfortbot. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/89 "2014-08-27T23:20:07Z")
And I waited a long time, too. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/90 "2014-08-28T02:44:44Z")
You’re not going to get my buy-in on a benevolent government and a growing segment of the population deciding that it would be just awesome to preemptively chip everyone when they’re toddlers before they develop violent habits. I also remember reading a book several decades back when dead tree publishing was the only game in town. Instead of a chip the felon had a ring surgically grafted to their finger. One of the past-times that neighborhood gangs amused themselves with was kick the ringer. Unfortunately I don’t remember the book or the main plot. But I’m pretty sure it was about bringing down the system. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221/91 "2014-08-28T07:15:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not pacifism Who said anything about it being pacifist? > [@](#): > > that’s offloading the blame by automating the killing Once again - the only killing is going to be that of people who commit acts of violence knowing the risks. Like I said - suicide. > [@](#): > > Which will likely involve the annihilation of most of the human species. First, you’d have to wage nuclear war on nuclear armed countries since you can’t conquer them without being nuked anyway. Then, you’d have to conquer the survivors, killing everyone who resists. And, you’d have to somehow keep enough infrastructure up to build and install the chips. _Then,_ you’d somehow have to convince the army that committed all that mass slaughter to chip itself. Details. You don’t balk at the magic chip, but the _logistics_ is where you express your disbelief? If **Skald** can have a magic brain chip, _I_ can have magic gnat-sized chip-implanting AI drone-robots, in numbers sufficient to inoculate the entire planet one Dec 25th night. There, Whirled Peas for Xmas, it’s truly a miracle! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-chip-violent-criminals-to-make-them-incapable-of-aggression-should-we/696221.md?page=4)