# We can lock you up forever, now... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693 "2005-01-02T14:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/1 "2005-01-02T14:57:35Z")
[According to Reuters,](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=XXJC4W15OEDDUCRBAEZSFFA?type=topNews&storyID=7217367) the Bush administration is now pondering the possibility of simply locking up terror suspects for the rest of their lives… without trial. Tell me again why we invaded Iraq? Because Saddam was a bad, bad person? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/2 "2005-01-02T15:16:50Z")
The [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41475-2005Jan1.html?sub%3DAR&sub=AR) story is much more complete, although you have to register to read it all. Here’s a bit that Reuters left out: > [@](#): > > The administration considers its toughest detention problem to involve the prisoners held by the CIA. The CIA has been scurrying since Sept. 11, 2001, to find secure locations abroad where it could detain and interrogate captives without risk of discovery, and without having to give them access to legal proceedings. > > Little is known about the CIA’s captives, the conditions under which they are kept – or the procedures used to decide how long they are held or when they may be freed. That has prompted criticism from human rights groups, and from some in Congress and the administration, who say the lack of scrutiny or oversight creates an unacceptable risk of abuse. I just don’t know what to say anymore. I really don’t. This is one of the reasons I didn’t vote for Bush; because he, and his administration, seem to have decided that the laws they’ve sworn to uphold don’t apply if it’s not convenient. They seem to have forgotten that the times when it’s inconvenient to uphold the law are the very times that it is most important to do so. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/3 "2005-01-02T15:18:42Z")
> [@](#): > > the Defense Department, which holds 500 prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, plans to ask the U.S. Congress for $25 million to build a 200-bed prison to hold detainees who are unlikely to ever go through a military tribunal for lack of evidence, defense officials told the newspaper. So they don’t even have enough evidence to try them, even before a military tribunal, let alone a civilian court with the full panoply of rights? Lemme see… indefinite imprisonment of people not convicted of any crime… check. Torture of detainees… check. When will our government start building rape rooms and hauling in the wood chippers? ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/4 "2005-01-02T15:24:34Z")
Lack of evidence doesn’t mean these people aren’t guilty. I mean a lot of them look Arabic. They have beards. They read the Koran for fucks sake. It’s classic terrorist behaviour. If you liberals had your way we’d all have been murdered in our beds already… ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/5 "2005-01-02T15:33:19Z")
It’s a sad reflection of how low things have sunk (and some of the arguments I have had recently), that I read the first line of this and thought you were being serious. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/6 "2005-01-02T15:35:49Z")
Heh, very few people in America care about civil rights anymore. Just keep giving tax cuts to the rich and directing mass hate to gays, Muslims, and liberals, and Bush can do anything he wants. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/7 "2005-01-02T16:41:43Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > [According to Reuters,](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=XXJC4W15OEDDUCRBAEZSFFA?type=topNews&storyID=7217367) the Bush administration is now pondering the possibility of simply locking up terror suspects for the rest of their lives… without trial. > > Tell me again why we invaded Iraq? Because Saddam was a bad, bad person? The excuses, aside from bad ass weapons stockpiles and germs and chemicals, included the one other excuse that he was doing exactly what we are doing now - locking people up, being mean to them, etc. We have met the Enemy and he is us. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/8 "2005-01-02T17:26:20Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Lemme see… indefinite imprisonment of people not convicted of any crime… check. Torture of detainees… check. When will our government start building rape rooms and hauling in the wood chippers? You liberal whiner, you. You just don’t understand. We have to lock these people up to protect Good Americans from Evildoers who don’t even have the decency to respect our sense of freedom and fair play. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/9 "2005-01-02T17:34:02Z")
I notice none of the usual reactionary zealots have had the guts to defend this one. I’m sure one particular one who gets all turned on by killing and such will come along soon enough, but the rest apparently need a few more days to come up with some idiot rationalization. ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/10 "2005-01-02T17:39:06Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > We have met the Enemy and he is us. Fatherland, motherland, homeland. > [@gobear](#): > > Heh, very few people in America care about civil rights anymore. Just keep giving tax cuts to the rich and directing mass hate to gays, Muslims, and liberals, and Bush can do anything he wants. _Panem et circenses_ ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/11 "2005-01-02T17:45:44Z")
O beautiful for glory-tale Of liberating strife When once and twice, for man’s avail Men lavished precious life ! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till selfish gain no longer stain The banner of the free! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/12 "2005-01-02T17:46:07Z")
What, ~suspicious~ do you not want to Stay the Course? Are you… Soft on Terror? So you want the Bad Guys to win? Are you just a coward-sissy-pansy and unable to Do What it Takes to Win? Why do you whiney Liberals hate America so much? \* \*Whatcha think? Seems like the thinktank spin to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/13 "2005-01-02T18:19:20Z")
All right, this is the last straw, America; I’m packing up my bags and going home. Wait a minute…this _is_ my home. Shit. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/14 "2005-01-02T18:21:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I notice none of the usual reactionary zealots have had the guts to defend this one. To be fair, it’s the weekend and (for most) the last day of the holidays. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/15 "2005-01-02T19:02:08Z")
Don’t worry, I’m sure Brutus will be along shortly with absolutely nothing insightful to say. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/16 "2005-01-02T19:15:21Z")
Hey, maybe some, or even most, of these prisoners are indeed terrorists, “the worst of the worst”, as I believe Rumsfeld put it. Doesn’t matter; the whole thing stinks like week-old calamari. On what fucking basis were these people taken away and imprisoned, if no legal case of any kind can be made against them? If this policy is successfully rammed through whatever legal hurdles may impede it, we might as well wipe our collective asses with the Constitution, it means nothing. If there was ever a time to bombard one’s elected officials with letters of objection, this is the time to do it, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/17 "2005-01-02T19:42:57Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > Don’t worry, I’m sure Brutus will be along shortly with absolutely nothing insightful to say. And comments like that will discourage him from sharing his opinion on those ocaisions when it does agree with yours. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/18 "2005-01-02T20:23:31Z")
[/hijack] Going back to the OP and post #2, I’m not sure it’s some hidden agenda or convenient legal amnesia as much as it is a case of “the ends justify the means.” We were attacked on our own soil on this scale for the first time since Pearl Harbor, and Bush’s name will be forever linked to it because he was in office. There has been a strong indication that the Cabinet was already gunning for Iraq, and 9/11 gave the administration nearly a blank check to do what it felt was necessary wherever and whenever. There is definitely arrogance in the White House again. It is a different type arrogance, though, than that displayed by Nixon _et al_, who did have a more casual and convenient disregard for certain laws. Vlad/Igor [hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/19 "2005-01-02T20:34:12Z")
If they get away with this (and the past 4 years of precendent says they will) … how long 'til they start locking people up for being Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693/20 "2005-01-02T20:43:13Z")
Why bother? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-can-lock-you-up-forever-now/282693.md?page=2)