# "We can't let you buy these drinks because you have underage people in your car." **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 30, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201 "2008-12-30T11:26:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/41 "2008-12-30T21:02:46Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > I was in Dominicks (a grocery store in Chicago owned by Safeway) and the person in front of me was buying beer and the lady cashier said “Sorry I can’t sell you that, because of the young man.” He was like “That’s my son.” And she explained store policy is that when an underage person is with someone they don’t sell them liquor. > > So the guy said “If I had my son wait outside though, you’d have sold it to me?” And she says “Yes,” So he says “OK go wait outside.” And the cashier says “Sorry too late I already saw you.” That’s a lame policy. How long before it “resets”? That is, I assume if the man came back the next day without his son he could buy beer. What if he left and came back an hour later, would that be okay? Bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/42 "2008-12-30T21:06:29Z")
This seems very silly to me. Who cares who’s with the person buying alcohol? It’s presumably going to a house somewhere, where a variety of people from age 0 to 99 will be. A clerk refused to sell an ex-girlfriend strawberry daiquiri mix because she was underage. Just the mix, no alcohol. She doesn’t even drink. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/43 "2008-12-30T21:17:00Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > They’re not refusing to sell to minors, they’re refusing to sell to people who are of legal age. A man who’s with his wife who’s also of legal age, but doesn’t happen to have her ID. A woman who’s with her own daughter. Please tell us how the clerk’s supposed to know if someone is of legal age without carding them. :rolleyes: Or if that really was his wife or her daughter. You don’t seriously expect them to risk their job on the customer’s word, do you? _It is better to lose a sale than risking breaking the law_ (exact quote from our handbook). Not only will I be fired for a 1st offence, my _manager_ will be terminated if our store get’s 3 violations in a 24 month period (whether he’s present when they occured or not). ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/44 "2008-12-30T21:28:11Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > So you’re suggesting that if I, as a person old enough to buy alcohol and with ID to prove same, walk into a liquor store but am prevented from making a purchase because I’m with my wife, who is also old enough but didn’t bring her purse with her, it becomes MY responsibility to put the alcohol back on the shelves?.. No, of course it’s not your responsibility to put it back on the shelfs. The clerk should simply remove the items from the counter and ring up the rest of your order. They can be put pack later. You’re also perfectly free to leave without buying anything as long as you don’t argue, curse, throw stuff, or spit at the cashier (all of which I’ve had happen). ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/45 "2008-12-30T21:33:52Z")
Suppose the minor was 2 years old. Would that make a difference? How about 8? 12? 14? What’s the lower limit of the prohibited range? ---
**Author:** ![Lo-Slung\_Denim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@Lo-Slung\_Denim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lo-Slung_Denim)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/46 "2008-12-30T21:39:03Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I don’t understand. Why didn’t she just show her ID? What kind of 24-year-old doesn’t carry ID? She doesn’t have a driver’s licence, and I do. Driver’s licence and passport are the most common IDs to have in the UK, very few people carry their passport. That means if you don’t have a driver’s licence, you have to suck it up if you’re ID’d. I don’t know anyone that carries any other ID - when kids hit 18 I think they show off their passport like a badge to get booze, but a few years later…I imagine most people aged above roughly 20 don’t get asked for it enough to cart round their passport. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/47 "2008-12-30T21:41:21Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > No, of course it’s not your responsibility to put it back on the shelfs. The clerk should simply remove the items from the counter and ring up the rest of your order. They can be put pack later. You’re also perfectly free to leave without buying anything as long as you don’t argue, curse, throw stuff, or spit at the cashier (all of which I’ve had happen). **Zen Beam’s** statement: > [@Zen Beam](#): > > I think the proper response here (well, throughout this thread) is to just leave, and let the store deal with all the stuff brought to the register. followed by **even sven’s** reply: > [@even sven](#): > > Because state law is the clerk’s fault? Clerks can be arrested and personally responsible for huge financial penalties if they sell to minors. And there are frequent sting operations where police try to trip people up. Why would you even think of making some poor clerk’s life more difficult because he wants to do what it takes to keep his job and not get in trouble with the law? No mention of arguing, cursing, throwing, or spitting, yet **even sven** appears to believe that walking out the door makes the clerk’s life more difficult. Perhaps it does, but I don’t see where that’s the buyer’s problem. If a store refuses to sell ANY merchandise, for WHATEVER reason, to a customer, I in no way see where the customer has to restock it. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/48 "2008-12-30T22:18:20Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > I don’t know about Queensland but I suspect they may have a law that is similar to the one we have in Sweden which prohibit the sale of alcohol if there is reason to assume that the person making the purchase intend to pass it on to someone who is underage. That’s different than asserting that there is a law that precludes selling alcohol to anyone accompanied by someone who is either a minor or without identification proving they are not a minor. 😉 Stores do NOT have to have such policies. It’s perfectly possible to have a more customer friendly policy that still results in avoiding sale of alcohol to proxies for minors. But it’s like counting athletes for Title IX: you can prove compliance other ways, but counting athletes is easy and much harder to screw up. So that’s what most institutions do. Similarly, a store with a policy that says: do NOT sell to anyone accompanied by someone who can’t prove they are not a minor will be much less likely to fall afoul state liquor laws than one that allows its clerks discretion. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/49 "2008-12-30T22:23:06Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > \*\* > If a store refuses to sell ANY merchandise, for WHATEVER reason, to a customer, I in no way see where the customer has to restock it. So If I, a 15 year old kid, get $100 worth of odds and ends and the supermarket and then go to check out, I should just walk away and abandon my cart when the cashier refuses to sell me cigarettes? PS I’m not 15. PPS, I’m not agreeing OR disagreeing with your statement, just asking a question. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/50 "2008-12-30T22:47:37Z")
> [@Lo-Slung\_Denim](#): > > She doesn’t have a driver’s licence, and I do. Driver’s licence and passport are the most common IDs to have in the UK, very few people carry their passport. That means if you don’t have a driver’s licence, you have to suck it up if you’re ID’d. I don’t know anyone that carries any other ID - when kids hit 18 I think they show off their passport like a badge to get booze, but a few years later…I imagine most people aged above roughly 20 don’t get asked for it enough to cart round their passport. In the United States, the same agencies that issue driver’s licenses also issue “state identification cards” (“non-driver” licenses). Every adult I know who isn’t licensed to drive has one of these I.D. cards. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/51 "2008-12-30T22:53:42Z")
My guess is a lot of stores simply want to avoid litigation. It’s a lot easier to refuse a few sales than it is to defend a lawsuit. Even if you win, it costs a lot to defend. I have actually posted opinions on sites and have people threaten me with legal action if I don’t remove them. I told them “Take it up with the owner of the site, and if you want to go ahead sue me, but I’ll counter sue for costs.” Nothing is ever done, but I can imagine how many people get scared of threats and comply. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/52 "2008-12-30T23:09:50Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Suppose the minor was 2 years old. Would that make a difference? How about 8? 12? 14? What’s the lower limit of the prohibited range? That’s my question too. So a mother who brings her strong 16 year old son along to help with the heavy bags is penalized and cannot buy a bottle of wine to enjoy at dinner with her husband, but a father who can carry all the bags _and_ has a 1 year old in a sling on his chest is okay? Or are they both told sorry, you can’t have booze if you’ve got a kid, period? So then we’re just penalizing parents. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/53 "2008-12-30T23:36:57Z")
> [@Chef\_Troy](#): > > Wow. I’ve never heard of such a thing. Heck, here in Texas, underage people can _drink in a bar_ as long as they’re with either a parent or spouse who’s over 21. The parent or spouse has to buy the drink and serve it to the minor him- or herself. Thats technically true, but most bars wont let the kid drink anyway. If they parent gets up to go to the bathroom the bartender/waitress isupposed to take the drinks off the table until the parent returns. It’s a big hassle and liability for the bar and none of the bars I bounced for would allow it. I had to take the texas alcholic beverage class and we were were taught that if we saw minors in the car or with the buyer not to sell it to them. I turned down dozens of people buying beer for that reason back in college…of course it’s been a couple of decades but I understand it’s still the law. If you sell beer to someone who gives it to a minor, and the TABC can reasonably assume you knew about it you go to jail and usually lose your job. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/54 "2008-12-30T23:44:57Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Merchants have no obligation to sell to you, so many of them create and impose their own bullshit rules. > > I was a college student with no car, living in a different state from the one from which my unused driver’s license was issued, and, having no interest in standing in long lines at DMV, hadn’t bothered to obtain a NYS license. > > Nearest 7-11 type store would not sell me beer. “We don’t take that, it’s got to be a New York State driver’s license”. > > “Umm, I’m not trying to drive a car. It’s valid proof of age.” (And I’m 30) > > “New York State license only. NEXT!” > Personally, I don’t think merchants should have the right to refuse to sell to people. Either you’re in business or you’re not. It used to be the same way in Texas (this was 10+ years ago, not sure if it’s still the case.) I drove from Illinois out to Dallas to live with my brother for a few months. It wasn’t a permanent situation, so I didn’t feel the need to get a Texas driver’s license. It wasn’t necessary, but it sure made buying booze a PITA! If I was lucky enough to get a clerk who “knew” me (but I’m sure he still could’ve gotten in big trouble by his boss,) he’d go ahead and let it slide; otherwise, I was SOL. It sucked, because we lived in a dry county, so I would stop off on my way home from work, which was quite a distance from our apt. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/55 "2008-12-31T00:14:49Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The problem here is often compounded by the fact that people are often unclear about exactly what the law is, what the store policy is, and what is urban legend: even the people working at the store, managers and clerks alike, may be unclear on this. If both the laws and policies were clearly stated up front, it’d be much easier to deal with. at places I worked we had a little alch bev code book to read during down times. I read the thing front to back and new the code better than most of the cops who came in. Texas has some wierd laws. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/56 "2008-12-31T00:18:13Z")
as for the out of state license thing… When someone moves in from out of state and they get an in state id, they now have an extra out of state id to give to their younger sibling to use to buy beer. Therefore the law in many places is that the only id accepted is a current, in state issued id card. the cops don’t care if the person had a fake id, if the clerk sells to them, the clerk goes to jail…therefore many businesses have even stricter rules than the state law. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/57 "2008-12-31T00:28:57Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > That’s my question too. So a mother who brings her strong 16 year old son along to help with the heavy bags is penalized and cannot buy a bottle of wine to enjoy at dinner with her husband, but a father who can carry all the bags _and_ has a 1 year old in a sling on his chest is okay? Or are they both told sorry, you can’t have booze if you’ve got a kid, period? So then we’re just penalizing parents. ☹ I would imagine the clerk would serve these folks without issue. They don’t have to invoke the policy, but if it’s there, they can use it when they need it. (The clerks aren’t robots and presumably understand the contextual difference between (A) a 38 year old woman buying wine with her 16 year old son and (B) a gaggle of 15-18 year old boys buying a case of Bud.) ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/58 "2008-12-31T00:42:42Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Personally, I don’t think merchants should have the right to refuse to sell to people. Either you’re in business or you’re not. BATF and similar state agencies impose restrictions on the merchant on how they handle the sale. Just like our many discussions of arrest by store security, store policy usually exceeds the law by a wide margin to make sure there is little if any liability in the event of a failure to comply fully with store policy. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/59 "2008-12-31T00:54:57Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > My WAG, they are probably purchased by the liquor department and when they are sold the liquor department gets the money for them. Now, that wouldn’t normally be a big deal BUT if the store uses a barcode scanner to ring things up and the glasses are coded as ‘liquor’ or ‘wine’ or something along those lines, then the cashier has to ask for an ID. It’s not really up to the cashier to make a judgement call about the actual item. Thanks **Joey**. That makes more sense than I could come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201/60 "2008-12-31T01:21:28Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I seriously doubt that it is the law of any jurisdiction that you can’t sell alcohol to someone who is accompanied by a person who doesn’t produce ID proving they are of drinking age. What, you can’t sell to a mother who has a baby with her? You can’t sell to a father with is five-year-old son with him? Nonsense. So, **Martini Enfield** , before I accept your assertion that that is the law in Queensland, I’d need to see some proof, like a citation to the law in question. 🙂 The relevant legislation is section 156 of the [_Liquor Act 1992 (QLD)_](http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/L/LiquorA92.pdf) (.PDF), which states (in part): > [@Liquor Act 1992 (QLD)](#): > > (1) A person must not, on premises to which a licence or permit > relates— > (a) supply liquor to; or > (b) permit or allow liquor to be supplied to; or > (c) allow liquor to be consumed by; > a person who— > (d) is a minor; or > (e) is unduly intoxicated or disorderly. The “premises to which a licence or permit relates” bit means “A premises licensed to sell alcohol”- ie a hotel bar, pub, bottle shop, liquor barn, restaurant, etc. Minors are allowed to be in on licensed premises whilst being supervised by a “responsible adult” (basically, Mum, Dad, or someone old enough to be their parents who can exercise control over the minor- NOT an older brother or sister or cousin). There’s absolutely no problem with kids under about 13 being in the store with their parents- the sale would just go through without any questions. The problem is the “Permit or allow liquor to be supplied to” clause of the legislation, which makes the licensed premises liable if they reasonably suspect the alcohol is for a minor and do not take appropriate steps. So, a 38 year old Mum with a 16 year old son buying a single bottle of wine, and saying it’s for her only, then we’ll write the incident up and let the sale through. 42 year old Dad with a 17 year old daughter buying a case of Guava-flavoured Vodka Cruisers, a couple of bottles of Passion Pop, and Premixed “Cowboy” cocktails? We’re likely going to refuse the sale unless the daughter can prove she’s 18. And before anyone asks, if the Dad had come in on his own and purchased the same stuff, we’d just put the sale through. The presence of the minor is what creates the “reasonable doubt” in our minds that the alcohol is for him, or that he’s only supplying it to other adults at a party. All this is covered in the Responsible Service of Alcohol courses, which staff in licensed premises are legally required to undertake before they can work there. It’s not company policy or staff wanting to be assholes to stop people getting liquor- it’s the law, and the fines are fucking expensive, and enough to bankrupt most people. The Licence Nominee can get fined something like $30,000 personally, even if they were on holiday in Thailand at the time one of their staff sold alcohol to a minor. It’s not worth the risk, and retail staff (who are just like anyone else and need a job to pay the bills) are not going to risk those fines and other life-ruining consequences just because some 17 year old wanted a four-pack of Bacardi Breezers. Incidentally, yes, we have had people complain to both our head office and Liquor Licensing about being refused service when they were with their teenaged minor children, and in every. single. case, both head office and Liquor Licensing have stood behind us 100% and said we did the right thing by refusing the sale. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-cant-let-you-buy-these-drinks-because-you-have-underage-people-in-your-car/479201.md?page=4)