# "We Didn't Start the Fire" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 23, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692 "2010-11-23T19:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Evelyn\_K.Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Evelyn\_K.Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evelyn_K.Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/1 "2010-11-23T19:53:37Z")
In the song, “We Didn’t Start the Fire” by Billy Joel… I need help on understanding somethings… “payola and Kennedy”–do these two items corrolate with each other??? “dylan”–do they mean Bob Dylan??? If someone could please help me 🙂 Also, what are your thoughts on the song??? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/2 "2010-11-23T20:03:06Z")
No. The payola scandal was before JFK took office. The song is a laundry list of people and events; there is little connection other than a roughly chronological one. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/3 "2010-11-23T20:15:07Z")
[Here’s a little more detail](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn't_Start_the_Fire) on the laundry list. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/4 "2010-11-23T20:17:20Z")
we listened to it in 7th grade for american history and it was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/5 "2010-11-23T21:12:09Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > we listened to it in 7th grade for american history and it was awesome. Holy crap so did we. The teacher would play that song and Jesus Jones’ “Right Here, Right Now” sometimes before class. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/6 "2010-11-23T21:12:21Z")
A [2005 thread on suggested updates](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=330083)for the song. It’s been 5 years since that thread so that’s even more. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/7 "2010-11-23T21:25:25Z")
I hate this song. Out of an album that was otherwise full of outstanding, complex, and often mournful songs, this one stupid lyric that is nothing but a bunch of random cultural references plugged together with a simple backing riff and an idiotic refrain peaks at #1. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/8 "2010-11-23T21:36:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I hate this song. Out of an album that was otherwise full of outstanding, complex, and often mournful songs, this one stupid lyric that is nothing but a bunch of random cultural references plugged together with a simple backing riff and an idiotic refrain peaks at #1. > > Stranger I actually bought _Storm Front_ for that one song. Within two days I was sick of it, but I still listen to _Downeaster Alexa_ and _Leningrad_. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/9 "2010-11-23T22:04:19Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I actually bought _Storm Front_ for that one song. Within two days I was sick of it, but I still listen to _Downeaster Alexa_ and _Leningrad_. _Downeaster Alexa_ is an incredibly evocative, heartbreaking ballad. You can practically feel the ocean spray washing up across the bow as you’re heading out to sea: \*We took on diesel back in Montauk yesterday And left this morning from the bell in Gardiner’s Bay Like all the locals here I’ve had to sell my home Too proud to leave I worked my fingers to the bone So I could own my Downeaster “Alexa” And I go where the ocean is deep There are giants out there in the canyons And a good captain can’t fall asleep\* Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/10 "2010-11-23T22:04:52Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > we listened to it in 7th grade for american history and it was awesome. This makes me feel old… That being said, we listened to Arlo Guthrie’s _Alice’s Restaurant_ during American history junior year, and I imagine that makes someone else out there feel old. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/11 "2010-11-23T22:12:50Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I hate this song. I’m so glad I’m not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/12 "2010-11-23T23:50:45Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _Downeaster Alexa_ is an incredibly evocative, heartbreaking ballad. You can practically feel the ocean spray washing up across the bow as you’re heading out to sea: > > \*We took on diesel back in Montauk yesterday > And left this morning from the bell in Gardiner’s Bay > Like all the locals here I’ve had to sell my home > Too proud to leave I worked my fingers to the bone > > So I could own my Downeaster “Alexa” > And I go where the ocean is deep > There are giants out there in the canyons > And a good captain can’t fall asleep\* > > Stranger Just for curiosity, what does “downeaster” mean? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/13 "2010-11-24T00:00:15Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _Downeaster Alexa_ is an incredibly evocative, heartbreaking ballad. You can practically feel the ocean spray washing up across the bow as you’re heading out to sea: > > \*We took on diesel back in Montauk yesterday > And left this morning from the bell in Gardiner’s Bay > Like all the locals here I’ve had to sell my home > Too proud to leave I worked my fingers to the bone > > So I could own my Downeaster “Alexa” > And I go where the ocean is deep > There are giants out there in the canyons > And a good captain can’t fall asleep\* > > Stranger This is one of my wife’s favorite songs. and **Stranger** is right - it is incredibly evocative and beautiful. In fact, I’d say it’s the best modern song of the sea, save for _The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald_. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/14 "2010-11-24T00:03:19Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I hate this song. Out of an album that was otherwise full of outstanding, complex, and often mournful songs, this one stupid lyric that is nothing but a bunch of random cultural references plugged together with a simple backing riff and an idiotic refrain peaks at #1. > > Stranger One could say it was a bellweather for media and culture in the digital age; a bunch of random cultural references plugged together with a simple backing riff and an idiotic refrain. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/15 "2010-11-24T00:04:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Just for curiosity, what does “downeaster” mean? From the context, I assume it’s a boat. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/16 "2010-11-24T00:06:48Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Just for curiosity, what does “downeaster” mean? It’s a maritime term. When ships sail the Atlantic coast of the U.S. eastward, they have the wind at their backs. Hence, they are sailing downwind, or “Down East.” Down East also commonly refers to the coast of Maine. [Down East](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downeast) ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/17 "2010-11-24T00:36:45Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > This is one of my wife’s favorite songs. and **Stranger** is right - it is incredibly evocative and beautiful. In fact, I’d say it’s the best modern song of the sea, save for _The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald_. I agree, but I’d add [The Trawlerman’s Song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOXyfKBDzOY&feature=related) by Mark Knopfler in any list of top five. [/off topic] ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/18 "2010-11-24T01:17:04Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > This is one of my wife’s favorite songs. and **Stranger** is right - it is incredibly evocative and beautiful. In fact, I’d say it’s the best modern song of the sea, save for _The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald_. Check out The Decemberist’s _The Mariner’s Revenge_. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/19 "2010-11-24T01:31:48Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > It’s a maritime term. When ships sail the Atlantic coast of the U.S. eastward, they have the wind at their backs. Hence, they are sailing downwind, or “Down East.” Down East also commonly refers to the coast of Maine. > > [Down East](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downeast) Though in [the song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVlDSzbrH5M) Downeaster is the name of his boat as well. Alexa is the name of Billy Joel’s daughter with Christie Brinkley (who incidentally I just read an interview with the other day and it said she was 56 years old- damn, how’d that happen?). I first listened to _Downeaster Alexa_ on a walkman on the plane ride the day after I bought the CD. It was a very bumpy ride and it made it just magical. That song was meant for motion sickness. He wrote it in part in protest of environmental activists who had added several species of fish to the protected registries and made it illegal to fish them. While perhaps sound for environmental reasons this devastated the already very troubled fishing industry. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692/20 "2010-11-24T01:36:58Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I hate this song. Out of an album that was otherwise full of outstanding, complex, and often mournful songs, this one stupid lyric that is nothing but a bunch of random cultural references plugged together with a simple backing riff and an idiotic refrain peaks at #1. > > Stranger I like the riff and it has a good beat, but from the first time I heard it I felt the same way about the content: a “bunch of random cultural refrences plugged together” I found myself enjoying the catchy tune while being annoyed at the randomness. Funny thing is, the other day my wife was listening to _[As Águas de Março](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waters_of_March)_ (The Waters of March) and one of the kids was asking what the song was saying. I explained that it is just a bunch of random thoughts and cultural references, very loosely held together by the concept “stuff that happens when the Rainy Season comes”, with a very catchy and repetitive backing tune. But that song is considered by some to be the greatest song of all Brazilian music, while Billy Joel’s effort is just lame. What an interesting contrast. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-didnt-start-the-fire/561692.md?page=2)