# We don't have to worry about bees dying off, do we? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215 "2007-04-15T15:49:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/1 "2007-04-15T15:49:35Z")
This article: [http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece](http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece) makes the case that we’re in big trouble. Our cell phones are killing off all the world’s bees and we’re all going to starve to death. Hopefully this point can be debated. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/2 "2007-04-15T16:46:12Z")
I don’t know about the whole cell phone angle, but I can tell you that the number of bees in SoCal has dropped dramatically, which doesn’t bode well for the hundreds of plant species that require pollenization by bees in order to fruit/flower. It’s kind of scary. From wikinews- > [@](#): > > Scientists say that the cause of the deaths and disappearances could be natural causes. Some also say that some bees became disoriented or could have been infected with mites, which could cause a lethal virus to overcome the bees. Other theories include the spread of a bee virus or a possible fungus which could cause them to die, poor nutrition and inbreeding. Scientists say that cell phone towers and crops that have been genetically engineered are not suspected of being a cause. > > The disappearances could be more serious than they sound-without bees to pollinate crops, in a few years time there could be a dramatic drop in the harvests in the affected states. > > Tracheal mites were the cause of a drop in bee population in 1985. After two years passed, the Varroa jacobson mite, which sucks the blood out of the bees, killed nearly 80% of bees in Montana. > > Pesticides may also be to blame which could cause the bees to literally get lost on their journey back home. > > “One-third of the food you eat is dependent upon honeybee pollination. If that one-third doesn’t happen, I don’t know what will occur at the grocery store,” added Sundberg. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/3 "2007-04-15T17:04:11Z")
[Alarming Disappearance of Honey Bees](http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1214&category=Environment) [Honey Bee Disappearances: Could Pesticides Play A Role?](http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_4557.cfm) [Are GM Crops Killing Bees?](http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,473166,00.html) The cell phone scenario is pretty far out. If true, I’d expect mosquito, ant, and fly populations to also take a hit. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/4 "2007-04-15T17:06:53Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] The cell phone scenario is pretty far out. If true, I’d expect mosquito, ant, and fly populations to also take a hit. [/QUOTE] Why? Ants follow scent trails on the ground. Mosquitoes aren’t social that I’m aware of, and neither are flies. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/5 "2007-04-15T17:08:44Z")
Cell phones have been around for a while, why do they suddenly start killing bees now.? I noticed the bees in Michigan dissappeaered about 4 years ago.They seem to be slowly coming back. A Bee keeper I met said it was due to mites. They planned on interbreeding with bees from other states to save them. Michigan bees were especially docile and efficient ,he said. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/6 "2007-04-15T17:58:17Z")
Yeah, I don’t know about this whole cellphone angle, either. We used to have a _lot_ of bees flying around our bushes in the front yard, but we’re lucky to see 2 or 3 these days. It’s pretty disturbing. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/7 "2007-04-15T18:22:56Z")
Problem seems not to be dying bee, _per se_. The bee colonies are not surrounded by cast off dead workers, it seems that they fly away and don’t come back. First guess would be something is messing with thier navigational apparatus. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/8 "2007-04-15T18:49:36Z")
Badgers evict their sick, it is also possible that ill bees fly off to die. It could be mites or some disease, coupled with an Oates syndrome > [@](#): > > “I am just going outside and may be some time.” — Captain Lawrence Oates (1880—1912), British soldier and explorer. Before leaving the tent and vanishing into the blizzard on the ill-fated Antarctic expedition (1910-12). Oates was afraid that his lameness would slow down the others. It is not as if mobile 'phone coverage has dramatically increased in the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/9 "2007-04-15T19:17:18Z")
From the OP’s linked strory: > [@](#): > > Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) occurs when a hive’s inhabitants suddenly disappear, leaving only queens, eggs and a few immature workers, like so many apian Mary Celestes. The vanished bees are never found, but thought to die singly far from home. The parasites, wildlife and other bees that normally raid the honey and pollen left behind when a colony dies, refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives. If the matter was simply one of the workers being confused and failing to return home, then there should be no reason for “parasites, wildlife and other bees” to “refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives.” To me, that puts an enormous hole in the cell phone theory. It seems much more likely that some agent is interfering with the hives, themselves, that cause not only colony bees but also foreighn bees and parasites to avoid the locations. (It is also not true, from what I have read, that ther colonies are all abandoned. The local stories on the topic have identified a number of cases in which beekeepers will find one of neighboring colonies filled with dead bees while an adjacent colony will still thrive. > [@gonzomax](#): > > I noticed the bees in Michigan dissappeaered about 4 years ago.They seem to be slowly coming back. A Bee keeper I met said it was due to mites. They planned on interbreeding with bees from other states to save them. Michigan bees were especially docile and efficient ,he said. The mite problem is not quite ten years old in the U.S. After wiping out a significant number of hives, the bees began to overcome that problem and slowly rebuild. Before they were back to full strength, this new hive death problem, unassociated with mites, reared up to threaten the bees and human agriculture. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/10 "2007-04-15T19:29:39Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] From the OP’s linked strory:If the matter was simply one of the workers being confused and failing to return home, then there should be no reason for “parasites, wildlife and other bees” to “refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives.” To me, that puts an enormous hole in the cell phone theory. It seems much more likely that some agent is interfering with the hives, themselves, that cause not only colony bees but also foreighn bees and parasites to avoid the locations. [/QUOTE] That avoidance might be explained by the action of [Cordyceps like fungus](http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2006/11/20/brainwashed-by-a-parasite/). However, if that’s the case, you’d think someone would have noticed by now. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/11 "2007-04-15T23:09:09Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Problem seems not to be dying bee, _per se_. The bee colonies are not surrounded by cast off dead workers, it seems that they fly away and don’t come back. [/QUOTE] Huh. Bee-serters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/12 "2007-04-15T23:21:04Z")
Edited it? And said it _anyway_? ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/13 "2007-04-15T23:44:19Z")
One question springs to my mind… If cell phones are causing this bee shortage, is anybody going to seriously consider not using cell phones and similar technologies (no wi-fi for you) just to save a few bees? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/14 "2007-04-16T01:33:30Z")
[QUOTE=Epimetheus] One question springs to my mind… If cell phones are causing this bee shortage, is anybody going to seriously consider not using cell phones and similar technologies (no wi-fi for you) just to save a few bees? [/QUOTE] It is not a matter of saving a few bees. The successive bee die-offs, first from mites and now from hive death (of whatever origin) poses a very genuine threat to U.S. (perhaps North American) agriculture. A very large number of crops are primarily pollinated by bees. This particular cell-phone (I presume cell tower) issue sounds unlikely, to me, based on my previous observation, but if we discovered that the CCD die back was actually caused by any new technology, we might, indeed, have to consider having to choose between that technology and our agricultural economy. From the [University of Georgia](http://www.uga.edu/aboutUGA/compete-bees.html) Wikipedia on [Colony Collapse Disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder#Scale_of_the_disorder) ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/15 "2007-04-16T05:07:57Z")
What if we took away the bees’ cell phones? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/16 "2007-04-16T05:28:57Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Huh. Bee-serters. [/QUOTE] No, it’s the revolution! The workers have been bee-mancipated! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/17 "2007-04-16T15:23:06Z")
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse] What if we took away the bees’ cell phones? [/QUOTE] They’ll be all right if they don’t use 802.11-bee for their devices. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/18 "2007-04-16T16:28:56Z")
I’m not buying the cell-phone theory. From the article: The alarm was first sounded last autumn, but has now hit half of all American states. The West Coast is thought to have lost 60 per cent of its commercial bee population, with 70 per cent missing on the East Coast. CCD has since spread to Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. And last week John Chapple, one of London’s biggest bee-keepers, announced that 23 of his 40 hives have been abruptly abandoned. The pattern seems completely inconsistent with the theory. Sounds like parasites or an infectious agent to me. But it’s still a serious matter, whatever the cause. Before long we’ll all be out there with tiny paintbrushes, individually pollinating each flower, just so we’ll have something to eat. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/19 "2007-04-16T17:14:39Z")
Thing is, we have a new agricultural practice…where hives are trucked all over the country as pollinators. You move millions of bees all over the country, and epidemics are also spread all over the country. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215/20 "2007-04-16T19:05:34Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Thing is, we have a new agricultural practice…where hives are trucked all over the country as pollinators. You move millions of bees all over the country, and epidemics are also spread all over the country. [/QUOTE] No cite from me, but I don’t believe this is a new practice. Do you have any cites that show that the transporting of hives to perform pollination is a recent innovation? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-have-to-worry-about-bees-dying-off-do-we/400215.md?page=2)