# We don't need no steenkin' draft! We got SLAVERY! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499 "2004-11-07T15:19:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/1 "2004-11-07T15:19:31Z")
Well, okay, maybe I’m exaggerating… but why bother with a draft when the U.S. Government seems to think it owns every citizen [who’s ever served in the military, no matter how long ago?](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041107/ap_on_re_us/reservist_lawsuit&cid=519&ncid=716) This is just flat-out WRONG. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/2 "2004-11-07T15:31:13Z")
This sounds more like a bureaucratic snafu than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/3 "2004-11-07T15:39:19Z")
Yes, it sounds like a clerical foul-up. On the other hand, last go round I was enlisted (Spec 5). Now with a degree and all, maybe I can be a General? Scary thought. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/4 "2004-11-07T15:39:54Z")
When you are a commissioned officer, you remain an officer unless you officially resign the commission. That’s the contract that he signed. I see no issue here. > [@](#): > > SLAVERY :rolleyes: Haj ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/5 "2004-11-07T15:49:03Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > This is just flat-out WRONG. Sure it is, but the thought of a swiftboat vet reunioun tour on the Euphrates has a certain appeal. It’d give those codgers one last chance to _earn_ their purple hearts. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/6 "2004-11-07T15:49:11Z")
> [@bnorton](#): > > This sounds more like a bureaucratic snafu than anything else. If it’s a SNAFU then why is the Army defending the suit? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/7 "2004-11-07T16:06:28Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > If it’s a SNAFU then why is the Army defending the suit? That was my thought. If I realized my department was responsible for this kind of craziness, I’d drop it like a hot piranha, lest it get into the news. Too late now. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/8 "2004-11-07T16:19:18Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > When you are a commissioned officer, you remain an officer unless you officially resign the commission. That’s the contract that he signed. I see no issue here. From [here](http://starbulletin.com/2004/11/06/news/story3.html): > [@](#): > > Seitz [Miyasato’s lawyer] noted that the Army has no claims to Miyasato because he served as a soldier whose enlistment ended in 1996. Unlike officers who serve indefinitely until they resign their commission, Miyasato has finished his commitment, Seitz said. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/9 "2004-11-07T16:33:35Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > When you are a commissioned officer, you remain an officer unless you officially resign the commission. That’s the contract that he signed. I see no issue here. > > Haj Miyasato enlisted straight out of high school and is dsecribed in the article as having “served as an Army petroleum supply specialist and a truck driver during the war.” They may be using “specialist” in the generic sense, but my guess is we’re talking about an actual enlisted-level “specialist”. I have seen nothing in any article that says he was an officer. So, do you think it’s OK for enlisted men to be slaves forever? Did they sign a contract saying that? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/10 "2004-11-07T16:42:23Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > So, do you think it’s OK for enlisted men to be slaves forever? Did they sign a contract saying that? No, their contract does not say that. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/11 "2004-11-07T17:24:41Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > So, do you think it’s OK for enlisted men to be slaves forever? Did they sign a contract saying that? Of course not. I read an article about this last night and thought it said he was an officer. If he’s was enlisted, it definitely does not apply. My mistake. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/12 "2004-11-07T18:22:43Z")
**bnorton:** _This sounds more like a bureaucratic snafu than anything else._ According to the article, it is part of a procedure apparently called “involuntary activation”: > [@](#): > > The Army announced last year that it would involuntarily activate an estimated 5,600 soldiers to serve in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Army officials would be tapping members of the Individual Ready Reserve — military members who have been discharged from the Army, Army Reserve or the Army National Guard, but still have contractual obligations to the military. > > Miyasato said he never re-enlisted, signed up for any bonuses or was told that he had been transferred to the Individual Ready Reserve or any other Army Reserve unit. > > “I fulfilled my contract,” Miyasato said. “I just want to move on from this, and I’m optimistic that I’ll be successful.” > > Miyasato speculated that he may have been picked because his skills as a truck driver and refueler are in demand in Iraq. I guess the “involuntarily” part applies to the soldiers, not to the Army, who are presumably doing this on purpose. In any case, activating Reserve members who still have contractual obligations to the military is one thing, but Miyasoto doesn’t seem to be in that category. Another thing that bothered me was the tone of Miyasoto’s lawsuit: > [@](#): > > His lawsuit states that Miyasato is suing not because he opposes the war in Iraq, but because his business and family would suffer “serious and irreparable harm” if he is required to serve. WTF?!? If he’s not contractually obligated to the military, who cares what he thinks about the war or whether his going to Iraq would be a hardship for his family? ISTM that all he should have to say is “I don’t want to and you can’t make me.” If the guy served his country and fully discharged his military obligations, then he doesn’t owe us or the Army any excuses for not returning to the service. If there’s any kind of expectation that ex-servicepeople should let themselves be shanghaied into extra service above and beyond the terms of their contracts just because the military could use them…well, it’s not slavery, but it sure as hell is not in keeping with the idea of a volunteer military. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/13 "2004-11-07T18:30:06Z")
I really doubt there is any such expectation. Given the sheer amount of people who’ve been in and out of the military, it speaks well for the “system” that out of all of them, there has only been this one screw-up. It will probably be settled real fast. Don’t start looking for press gangs yet. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/14 "2004-11-07T19:08:45Z")
Well, my complaint was not that I thought he was actually going to be pressed to serve, but that the wording of his lawsuit implies that he owes the Army some kind of excuse (“my family and business would suffer”) for refusing to do something that he’s got absolutely zero obligation to do. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/15 "2004-11-07T19:38:31Z")
You’re right. He does not owe any excuses or reasons to anyone. He has nothing to apologize for. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/16 "2004-11-07T20:10:43Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I really doubt there is any such expectation. Given the sheer amount of people who’ve been in and out of the military, it speaks well for the “system” that out of all of them, there has only been this one screw-up. It will probably be settled real fast. Don’t start looking for press gangs yet. Just 'cause we’ve only heard about this one doesn’t mean there haven’t been others. From the link i provided in my last post: > [@](#): > > Miyasato said he also believes he shouldn’t have been placed in the Individual Ready Reserve where 4,166 soldiers received mobilization orders in July nationwide. Of those, 843 have neither reported nor asked for a delay or exemption, according to the Army. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/17 "2004-11-07T20:46:07Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Another thing that bothered me was the tone of Miyasoto’s lawsuit: > WTF?!? If he’s not contractually obligated to the military, who cares what he thinks about the war or whether his going to Iraq would be a hardship for his family? ISTM that all he should have to say is “I don’t want to and you can’t make me.” If the guy served his country and fully discharged his military obligations, then he doesn’t owe us or the Army any excuses for not returning to the service. IANAL etc. but in taking paralegal courses and learnign how to write these things, part of what we learned was to throw in everything and see what sticks. If the “I fulfilled my contract” argument doesn’t fly then the “hardship” argument might. There is also the PR aspect to consider. “I support the war but this would destroy my family’s lives” plays better in the court of public opinion than “I don’t support this war.” ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/18 "2004-11-08T23:07:35Z")
Are there any other reports of this happening? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/19 "2004-11-08T23:39:01Z")
Well, the quote posted by **mhendo** says there are 4,166 ex-soldiers who received mobilization orders in July and 843 of them didn’t show. Presumably 3,323 ex-soldiers are either involuntarily back in the service or embroiled in their own legal battle. This article, appears to be on the same batch of people, [1/3 of Fmr Soldiers Fail to Report to Duty](http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?S=2467701) and this one, [843 ex-soldiers fail to report for Army duty](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/22/us.armycall.up.ap/). I can’t find any other cases, was this the first group of ex-soldiers brought back into active status? ---
**Author:** ![JerH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@JerH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerH)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499/20 "2004-11-09T16:25:12Z")
Slate did an explainer column on the [Individual Ready Reserve](http://slate.com/id/2103118) a while back. From their explanation, it sounds like this guy is free and clear. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-need-no-steenkin-draft-we-got-slavery/273499.md?page=2)