# We don't want peace, we just want to be rich. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621 "2006-06-29T12:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/1 "2006-06-29T12:30:24Z")
Fuck. Fuck Fuck. I am usually a bit more eloquent that this. But FUCK!! I live in a small town called Mechanicsville, VA. When the U.S.S. Cole was bombed in October of 2000, we lost [Ken Clodfelter](http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/keclodfelter.htm). He was a great kid. His folks played Mr. and Mrs. Santa Clause every year at the local Christmas breakfast. Salt of the earth people. There is a bridge named Ken’s name about 1/2 mile from my house. Sorry about your son. Here’s a plaque we put up on this bridge over I-295. A plaque. On a frickin’ bridge. Thanks. :rolleyes: I guess in 2000 after the U.S.S. Cole was bombed, we had no idea how bloody things would really get. This week in our local paper we find out that [Heathe Craig](http://mechlocal.com/) was killed in Afghanistan. (article is 1/2 way down the page) When a Blood kills a Crip, We know that a reprisal killing will soon follow. A Crip will avenge the death by killing a Blood. Which creates the need for another wave of vengeance. From the outside we can see that the cycle of violence simply feeds itself and it doesn’t end until everyone is dead or one side has had enough death and misery. Sounds like war to me. Either one side is completely eliminated, or one side endurs enough misery that they throw up their hands. Is this how we forge a new world? By killing or creating unbearable misery? And along the way creaing plenty of new reasons for us to fight again in the future? Planting the seeds of future wars? Is there no one with a new idea? And furthermore, are we so unready to consider new solutions as a society? I say we are NOT ready. Because as a person in the United States, I am among the top 1% of the wealthy of the world. [Where do you rank](http://globalrichlist.com/)? A world without war will have to look much different. There will have to be opportunity and wealth more equally distributed. There will have to be a sense of justice around the world where countries do not feel they are being held down so that the First World can remain insanely wealthy. We may have to give up some of our luxuries so that people can have the security they deserve. There is no security except shared security. As long as we remain uber-rich, and watch other nations struggle to feed their people, we expect conflicts. Fuck it. I want my Ipod, and my $4.95 happy meal, and I want to buy my kids’ clothes at Wal-Mart. Keep sending soldiers. I want a big ol’ SUV that uses more fuel than I need, and releases green house gases that screws the planet. Sorry Ken. Sorry Heathe. We just are not ready to sacrafice what it takes to have peace in the world. See you on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/2 "2006-06-29T13:28:39Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > When a Blood kills a Crip, We know that a reprisal killing will soon follow. A Crip will avenge the death by killing a Blood. Which creates the need for another wave of vengeance. From the outside we can see that the cycle of violence simply feeds itself and it doesn’t end until everyone is dead or one side has had enough death and misery. You’ve lost me here. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/3 "2006-06-29T14:17:16Z")
> [@Mellivora capensis](#): > > You’ve lost me here. > > 😕 I think he’s saying that every time we kill an insurgent, two of his brothers want revenge, so they kill one of our soldiers, which in turn causes us to go into that area with guns blazing and kill more insurgents. It’s a vicious cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/4 "2006-06-29T14:19:17Z")
> [@Mellivora capensis](#): > > You’ve lost me here. > > 😕 To expound on Lissa’s description, the Crips and the Bloods are gangs who are/were (not sure?) in an ever-increasing scale of violence. I believe they’re in L.A. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/5 "2006-06-29T14:23:23Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Sorry about your son. Here’s a plaque we put up on this bridge over I-295. A plaque. On a frickin’ bridge. Thanks. :rolleyes: Seems like a nice gesture for the town, which as far as I know has absolutely no input over the foreign policy of the United states, to make. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/6 "2006-06-29T14:37:51Z")
**Lissa** and **Anaamika** , thanks. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/7 "2006-06-29T14:51:14Z")
I hate to take the oomph out of the rant, but man, Mechanicsville makes me homesick for Virginia… ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/8 "2006-06-29T15:37:55Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > I think he’s saying that every time we kill an insurgent, two of his brothers want revenge, so they kill one of our soldiers, which in turn causes us to go into that area with guns blazing and kill more insurgents. It’s a vicious cycle. I think he’s delivered us of an eloquent—or eloquently confused—rant about \*\*war. What’s it good for?\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/9 "2006-06-29T15:59:29Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > We may have to give up some of our luxuries so that people can have the security they deserve. There is no security except shared security. As long as we remain uber-rich, and watch other nations struggle to feed their people, we expect conflicts. I fail to see what my having a decent standard of life has to do with a war in Iraq, issues in Darfour, the “troubles” in Ireland, the remnants of Pol Pot, etc. Looks like someone hooked you pretty good with a Sally-Struthers pitch. The impetus here is not our being a wealthy nation. What begins this issue is (simple reason) Envy. Or, you could use a more complicated formula, and arrive at a complicated position tha tboils down to…Envy. Violence is in the genes. Until we have a formalized United Nations Forensics Debate Squad for each country, violence will be the preferred method. It’s easy, it packs a statement, and it’s easy to do violent things. If Heathe Craig was a friend, then you have my condolences. Work on a better Pit thread, coherence-wise. -Cem ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/10 "2006-06-29T16:05:19Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > We may have to give up some of our luxuries so that people can have the security they deserve. You make it sound like it will be voluntary on our part. As China, India and other developing nations continue to grow and perfect western capitalism, they will continue to eat our lunch in the world economy, just by out-competing us at our own game. We won’t have to give up anything for the third world to prosper; they will take it from us, whether we like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/11 "2006-06-29T16:07:01Z")
Just FYI, the Bloods & Crips are gangs that pretty much infest the entire country, not just LA. And, they are not gone. If you want to see whether they are in your town, paint some blue graffiti on your back wall and see how long it takes someone to draw a red line through it and write something illegible in red. ---
**Author:** ![tashabot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tashabot/32/6250_2.png) [@tashabot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tashabot)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/12 "2006-06-29T18:03:28Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Just FYI, the Bloods & Crips are gangs that pretty much infest the entire country, not just LA. And, they are not gone. If you want to see whether they are in your town, paint some blue graffiti on your back wall and see how long it takes someone to draw a red line through it and write something illegible in red. Yeah, they’re even in my little teeny town. While I agree that if you work your ass off you deserve what wealth you can acquire, I also agree in being selfless enough to be willing to get rid of your shit to benefit someone else if need be. _shrugs_ It comes down to being a decent human being. I’ve got friends over in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it terrifies me. My condolances. ~Tasha ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/13 "2006-06-29T18:16:05Z")
> [@Cemetery Savior](#): > > The impetus here is not our being a wealthy nation. What begins this issue is (simple reason) Envy. Or, you could use a more complicated formula, and arrive at a complicated position tha tboils down to…Envy. > > -Cem But _what_ do they envy, in your view? Not our wealth? Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/14 "2006-06-29T18:21:33Z")
Well, I’m only in the top 12.95% of the world’s richest people, so, screw you **newcrasher!**. There you are, wasting the planet’s resources in your 1998 Honda Accord and demanding the $5.95 sauted chicken and garlic lunch special at Whole Foods, well fuck off man! Our soldiers don’t need to die for your 1998 Accord! Okay, so this isn’t making much sense so far, but worry not, it isn’t supposed to. Just for the record, I think that being a wealthy nation is only a small part of the reason that a lot of people don’t like us. It’s the hardball geopolitics and illegal wars in foreign countries that seem to piss people off more. But if you want to rave against the Crate and Barrel crowd, well, obviously there’s nothing stopping you on The Dope. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/15 "2006-06-29T18:26:57Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > I think he’s delivered us of an eloquent—or eloquently confused—rant about \*\*war. > > What’s it good for?\*\* Spurring technological progress? ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/16 "2006-06-29T18:43:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Spurring technological progress? Great. 2500 Americans and countless others dead so I can have a GPS in my car that can find the nearest KFC. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/17 "2006-06-29T19:09:16Z")
Well, I guess I’ll fuck right off… I put in my husband and I as one big person, and we are in the 0.001%, and as a unit we are the 107,565 richest person in the world. Wow. I feel like I should have eaten at the Ritz today instead of Baja Fresh tacos… What does this have to do with the war in Iraq again? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![samm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@samm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/18 "2006-06-29T20:00:29Z")
If you make $900,000 a year or $900 million a year you are stuck as the 107,565 richest person. How is that possible? Why can’t I want peace and riches at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/19 "2006-06-29T20:13:22Z")
Y’know, it really sucks how we have go over to Iraq and steal all their Ipods and Honda Accords and Kung Pao chicken. Why won’t those bastards share with us? The notion that people in the third world are poor because we are rich is laughable. Laughable. I laugh at this notion. People in the third world not poor because we stole their Ipods. Economics is not a zero sum game. When China’s economy grows, when India’s economy grows that makes the US economy grow. They aren’t taking more from our share, their increase share of wealth increases our share. Win-win. China’s economic renaissance is the most promising development for global peace since the end of WW2. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621/20 "2006-06-29T20:22:35Z")
> [@samm](#): > > Why can’t I want peace and riches at the same time? You don’t understand, man, it’s the system, man! Other people envy you for your wealth, man, and they’re willing to kill people for it! And because you’re not giving up your wealth, man, it’s _your_ fault that they’re killing people! They can’t be held responsible for their actions, man! It’s _you_ that determines what terrorists do! And if you don’t do what they want, and get them to stop envying you, man, it’s _your_ fault if people die. This rant brought to you by White Guilt[sup]TM[/sup] - it’s as patronizing as White Man’s Burden[sup]TM[/sup], but the veneer of Guilt provides extra cover for the racism inside! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-dont-want-peace-we-just-want-to-be-rich/362621.md?page=2)