# We fucked up the contract..so we call the cops and say you stole it.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644 "2012-10-04T00:40:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/61 "2012-10-06T15:16:58Z")
If that arrest is ever going to appear on a background check, regardless of the annotation of false arrest or whatever annotation it’ll have, I’d say that two million is a drop in the bucket for what the customer is owed by the moron who called the cops on him and the cops for arresting him without doing some credible investigation before slapping cuffs on the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/62 "2012-10-06T17:25:34Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > If that arrest is ever going to appear on a background check, regardless of the annotation of false arrest or whatever annotation it’ll have, I’d say that two million is a drop in the bucket for what the customer is owed by the moron who called the cops on him and the cops for arresting him without doing some credible investigation before slapping cuffs on the guy. I envy anyone for whom 2.2 million is a drop in the bucket. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/63 "2012-10-06T18:25:55Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > If the deal had gone the other way, if the customer had mistakenly signed a contract that would indicate that he owed way more than was a fair deal, do you REALLY that the dealership would say “Oh, we’ll tear up the the old contract and write up a new one”? Really? I think that the dealership would give the HA ha laugh and tell the customer that he signed the contract, he gets to pay it. I don’t know any dealer who would. Then again, I don’t know any dealers. I honestly wouldn’t know if a dealer would do that. I only know about car dealers through media, having never had much experience with them myself. Its not impossible to think there are honest ones. In this situation, however, if I’m acting as the customer, I can only say what I’d do and I’d go back and pay what I owed ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/64 "2012-10-06T18:39:27Z")
I wonder if it would depend on whether the guy had known they made a mistake. If he did, then he really did cheat the dealership. Same thing as if I go to the store and hand the clerk a 10 dollar bill for a 9 dollar object. If she gives me back change for a 20, I’m not entitled to keep it and think I just got a good deal. Employees make mistakes. Also, I can’t see the guy getting arrested, given that any purchased vehicle comes with some degree of paperwork showing your ownership interest. Certainly the police would have looked at that before arresting the guy. IT doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/65 "2012-10-06T19:16:40Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I wonder if it would depend on whether the guy had known they made a mistake. If he did, then he really did cheat the dealership. > > Same thing as if I go to the store and hand the clerk a 10 dollar bill for a 9 dollar object. If she gives me back change for a 20, I’m not entitled to keep it and think I just got a good deal. Employees make mistakes. > > Also, I can’t see the guy getting arrested, given that any purchased vehicle comes with some degree of paperwork showing your ownership interest. Certainly the police would have looked at that before arresting the guy. IT doesn’t make sense. one time I paid a 20$ for a cd and got a 20 in change and no one was getting ripped off, of course this was in Canada when the exchange rate was closer to 60% and I got a Canadian 20$ in change for my American. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/66 "2012-10-06T19:24:45Z")
As far as good dealerships - I’ve been to two - on the second one, they re-negotiated the payoff on my trade-in after the deal was done (it was a lease trade in, with the payoff way more than the vehicle was worth.) - They did, in fact, call me in to give me the benefit of their negotation - I saved 50 dollars a month and quite a few thousand dollars. So, there are times when dealerships will do the right thing. IMHO - the failure here in the OP story is not the dealer/customer having a dispute over the final price and/or mistake in the paperwork - it clearly lands on the police for arresting a man over a contract dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/67 "2012-10-07T02:18:50Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I envy anyone for whom 2.2 million is a drop in the bucket. The issue as I see it is that the arrest appearing on a background check can destroy the man’s reputation and jettison a fair number of job opportunities. Yes, I know that there’s an annotation of “Dismissed” but, really, do you think that Joe Average Hiring Person is going to figure that part out so quickly? 2.2 million dollars is a drop in the bucket for what he’s owed for that. Now, if the arrest will never appear, then maybe, just maybe, a bit less, but still more than a million. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/68 "2012-10-08T22:50:04Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > 4 hours in jail isn’t worth a 2.2 million dollar paycheck. I think when everyone looking at the lawsuit says “damn, that guy sure was lucky to have that horrible thing happen to him,” the damages being sought might be a liiiiittle bit high. It’s not only the four hours in jail. There are something like 10 plus charges being alleged, including false imprisonment, writing down false charges (defamation) making false verbal statements (slander), swearing out a false statement, verbal, written and other forms of communications harassment before AND after the arrest, failing to transfer the title to the vehicle, etc etc. There’s quite a list of actions the dealerships people took, INCLUDING attempting to have him sign a new sales agreement AFTER the Commonwealth’s Attorney Nol Prossed the case. They went full court press on him, involved the police, cost him time, money, his reputation, public humiliation and false imprisonment. They also attempted to coerce him by saying they would drop the grand theft charges if he would sign a new sales agreement. They’re going to settle, because his lawyers are demanding a trial by jury. Both the dealership and it’s insurance are NOT going to want to face twelve consumers who are going to see this as a huge company (with 11 dealerships) trying to put some sort of mafia strong-arm on the little guy. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/69 "2012-10-08T23:23:13Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > It’s not only the four hours in jail. There are something like 10 plus charges being alleged, including false imprisonment, writing down false charges (defamation) making false verbal statements (slander), swearing out a false statement, verbal, written and other forms of communications harassment before AND after the arrest, failing to transfer the title to the vehicle, etc etc. > > There’s quite a list of actions the dealerships people took, INCLUDING attempting to have him sign a new sales agreement AFTER the Commonwealth’s Attorney Nol Prossed the case. > > They went full court press on him, involved the police, cost him time, money, his reputation, public humiliation and false imprisonment. They also attempted to coerce him by saying they would drop the grand theft charges if he would sign a new sales agreement. > > They’re going to settle, because his lawyers are demanding a trial by jury. Both the dealership and it’s insurance are NOT going to want to face twelve consumers who are going to see this as a huge company (with 11 dealerships) trying to put some sort of mafia strong-arm on the little guy. > > Regards, > -Bouncer- Alright, let’s settle this. What is the lowest amount of money that you’d accept in exchange for voluntarily suffering what the car buying guy suffered as a result of the dealership? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/70 "2012-10-09T00:21:54Z")
Voluntarily? 2.2 million dollars, US. Involuntarily? I don’t think my calculator goes that high. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/71 "2012-10-09T00:45:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Voluntarily? 2.2 million dollars, US. > > Involuntarily? I don’t think my calculator goes that high. So you think the dealership ought to pay him more than the highest number your calculator goes to? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/72 "2012-10-09T01:52:52Z")
I think the dealership should go broke. Heck, I think the prosecutor should go after the individuals involved in the stunt. Okay, realistically, I think they should pay about five million. Less, if the dealership has less than that in cash and other assets. More, if they have more. And I’m not changing my stance on the prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/73 "2012-10-09T04:09:47Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Alright, let’s settle this. What is the lowest amount of money that you’d accept in exchange for voluntarily suffering what the car buying guy suffered as a result of the dealership? What number would serve as proper warning to that dealership(and others) that pulling shit like this isn’t cost effective? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/74 "2012-10-09T14:13:12Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > They’re going to settle, because his lawyers are demanding a trial by jury. Both the dealership and it’s insurance are NOT going to want to face twelve consumers who are going to see this as a huge company (with 11 dealerships) trying to put some sort of mafia strong-arm on the little guy. Every civil plaintiff everywhere ever demands a trial by jury, unless the rules of the jurisdiction don’t allow trial by jury for the amount at issue, or the plaintiff is highly unsympathetic (or, very rarely, if the plaintiff’s theory of the case is “too complex” to explain to a jury). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/75 "2012-10-09T14:24:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What number would serve as proper warning to that dealership(and others) that pulling shit like this isn’t cost effective? The negative publicity alone probably accomplishes those ends. I would sit back and trust my attorney to get me the best settlement possible. I’d be happy with a coupla million or with 20 K, assuming my attorney did his best for me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/76 "2012-10-09T14:32:18Z")
That’s kind of an odd attitude. Would you be happy if a surgeon botched an operation as long as he “did his best”? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/77 "2012-10-09T14:52:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s kind of an odd attitude. Would you be happy if a surgeon botched an operation as long as he “did his best”? Define “did his best”. If my surgeon followed standards of practice, did all he could, gave his best effort, and yet I died, sure I’d be happy. Biological systems are not always predictable, and death does not imply malpractice. IANAL. I would expect my lawyer to “do his best”, that is fight tooth and nail to get the most he could for me. If we end up going to trial, a jury might feel bad for the dealership and I might get less than if I’d settled. Doesn’t mean my attorney “botched” the case. A case (medical or surgical) may have a disappointing endpoint without anyone “botching” it, verdad? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/78 "2012-10-09T15:02:40Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The negative publicity alone probably accomplishes those ends. Are you shitting me?? Car dealerships, new and used, have been getting much worse publicity for the last hundred years or so, and it has done nothing to correct the problems inherent in the system. A used car dealer doesn’t give a shit if the public thinks of him as the scum of the earth as long as somebody signs that lopsided contract. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/79 "2012-10-09T15:04:28Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > A case (medical or surgical) may have a disappointing endpoint without anyone “botching” it, verdad? Yes, but somebody “doing his best” may not be doing whatever he’s doing as well as the standards of his profession require. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644/80 "2012-10-09T15:32:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s kind of an odd attitude. Would you be happy if a surgeon botched an operation as long as he “did his best”? Wouldn’t it be implied that a surgeon botching an operation, or an attorney botching a case did not do his best? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-fucked-up-the-contract-so-we-call-the-cops-and-say-you-stole-it/636644.md?page=5)