# We had our first high school football game last night and guess what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2000, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825 "2000-09-03T01:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tbea925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@tbea925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tbea925)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/41 "2000-09-04T19:33:01Z")
And when you pray, do not be as the hypocrites are; for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have already received their reward. But when you pray, go into your closet and close the door; pray to your Father in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. (if Matthew 6:6 is to be believed). Odd, debates on the constitution aside, you think if people claim to believe what they wear on their sleeve, they would at least read some of it, if not take it to heart. If only Christ could have had a TeeVee ministry or even a PA system, he could have been somebody. ---
**Author:** ![TampaFlyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@TampaFlyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TampaFlyer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/42 "2000-09-04T20:32:30Z")
\> Worst of all, prayers at football games are usually prayers for your team to be victorious A lot of them are prayers that nobody gets injured & the like, which would explain why it’s more common at a football game than other sports where serious injuries are less likely. Sometimes both teams pray together. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/43 "2000-09-04T23:27:55Z")
\*\*David B. \*\* my bad. It did seem out of character for **aha**. Sua ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2000, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/44 "2000-09-04T23:36:09Z")
> [@](#): > > It did seem out of character for aha. > Sua Thanks Sua I appreciate you saying so. 🙂 Now let us all pray… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/45 "2000-09-05T00:32:18Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by tbea925_ > Odd, debates on the constitution aside, you think if people claim to believe what they wear on their sleeve, they would at least read some of it, if not take it to heart. I agree, although No Pray No Play offers this reply at their [web page in response to non-Christians](http://www.nopraynoplay.org/non-christians.htm): > [@](#): > > Mathew Ch 6 has no relevance to public prayer unless you are a hypocrite. Besides, if praying in public is wrong, all pastors must be going to hell! This argument has no foundation. The Bible establishes that there are different types of prayer for different purposes. If you can talk Pope John Paul II and Reverend Billy Graham out of praying in public, we will gladly stop as well. (Good Luck!) I think it is clear that Jesus is holding up the hypocrites as an example not to follow and he is clearly commanding his followers not to do as they do. I’m not sure how they got the message that Jesus was commanding the hypocrites. Also, these No Pray No Play people seem to have the same motavations, from an atheist standpoint, as the hypocries that Jesus was talking about. They are praying to get people to pay attention to them and think, “Oh look how religious they are; they are praying so loudly in public they must be pious.” As Jesus said they have recieved their reward. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/46 "2000-09-05T04:50:35Z")
Of coure, baseball is religion, but that’s another story. \*\* [/QUOTE] Yep. After all, in the big inning, God created heaven and earth. ---
**Author:** ![nick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f9ae1b/32.png) [@nick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nick)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/47 "2000-09-05T08:45:56Z")
I think praying as a team is completely despicable. I played football, and before games the team would pray, which would make me extremely uncomfortable. I can’t believe they would automatically assume everyone on the team was uniformly Christian. Also, we had an assembly for something involving the giving of awards, congratulations, scholarships, etc. to outstanding students. Anyway, every student awarded was apparently required to give a speech. Virtually every one of them thanked god at the beginning of the speech. Many even said prayers. This made me pretty mad, so I elected to leave. As I was walking out, I was accosted by a “teacher”(i hesistate to call her that, considering she never taught me a damn thing). I was told I wasn’t allowed to leave the assembly until it was over. I argued saying that I felt uncomfortable with all the christian nonsense, she seemed to be pretty offended at this. Again, she asked me to sit down, and I refused, eventaully I was sent to the “time out” room. At the end of the day, I went to the principal, and told him what happened, and he pretty much dismissed the whole situation, saying it wouldn’t happen again. Of course, the teacher was never talked to, never reprimanded. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/48 "2000-09-05T09:01:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nick \* > Also, we had an assembly for something involving the giving of awards, congratulations, scholarships, etc. to outstanding students. Anyway, every student awarded was apparently required to give a speech. Virtually every one of them thanked god at the beginning of the speech. Many even said prayers. This made me pretty mad, so I elected to leave. As I was walking out, I was accosted by a “teacher”(i hesistate to call her that, considering she never taught me a damn thing). I was told I wasn’t allowed to leave the assembly until it was over. I argued saying that I felt uncomfortable with all the christian nonsense, she seemed to be pretty offended at this. I guess I can understand why you would feel uncomfortable by the prayers. But people thank God in award acceptance speeches all the time. Whaddya gonna do? There have been people who have thanked God when winning an Oscar. Whaddya gonna do? Start to dictate what people can say in their acceptance speeches? ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/49 "2000-09-05T15:43:53Z")
yosemitebabe: I believe nick was complaining about being forced to witness this and how the teacher was unsympathetic about the situation. To use your ill analogy, I think he would have a right to cpmplain if, while watching a parade of God-thanking awards winners on the televised Oscar ceremony, he tried to change the channel and his teacher wouldn’t let him. You do see the difference here, yes? This is a continuation of a trend I have seen which really irks me. People saying “Why are you trying to take God away?” and “What do you have against prayer,” and similar nonsense. Nobody has anything againsyt God or prayer. We object to WHEN and HOW in some cases when it infringes on our rights to be free from religion, and those rights of our children. * * * Yer pal, Satan _I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four months, three weeks, six days, 13 hours, 43 minutes and 3 seconds. 5982 cigarettes not smoked, saving $747.86. Extra life with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 6 days, 18 hours, 30 minutes._ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/50 "2000-09-05T16:23:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Lao \* > No Pray No Play offers this reply at their [web page in response to non-Christians](http://www.nopraynoplay.org/non-christians.htm): > > > [@](#): > > > > Mathew Ch 6 has no relevance to public prayer unless you are a hypocrite. Besides, if praying in public is wrong, all pastors must be going to hell! This argument has no foundation. The Bible establishes that there are different types of prayer for different purposes. If you can talk Pope John Paul II and Reverend Billy Graham out of praying in public, we will gladly stop as well. (Good Luck!) Cool. Using the same standard, the condemnation of homosexuality (from Romans 1) only applies to those who suppress the truth (or is it those who claim to be wise, but are fools): > [@](#): > > 18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness > suppress the truth. > 19: For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. > 20: Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in > the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; > 21: for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking > and their senseless minds were darkened. > 22: Claiming to be wise, they became fools, > 23: and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. > 24: Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, > 25: because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. > 26: For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, > 27: and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men > committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. It’s truly impressive how fundies can claim to believe in Biblical inerrancy, but weasel out of any verse that gives _them_ heartburn. Of course, that’s pretty hypocritical, so the verse in Matthew 6 applies to them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/51 "2000-09-05T18:19:28Z")
tbea925 wrote: > [@](#): > > If only Christ could have had a TeeVee ministry or even a PA system, he could have been somebody. “And Jesus saith unto his flock, ‘I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody!’” – 1 Waterfronts 5:14 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/52 "2000-09-05T20:02:00Z")
“If you’d come today you could’ve reached a whole nation, Israel in 4 B.C. had no mass communication.” – Judas, _Jesus Christ Superstar_ ---
**Author:** ![JosephFinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JosephFinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JosephFinn)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/53 "2000-09-05T20:08:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David B \* > \*\*[Moderator Hat: ON] > > JosephFinn said: > > > [@](#): > > > > to the wtit … for that twit again: STUFF IT. > > Okay, cool it. This isn’t the place for namecalling. Take it to the Pit if you want to do that. > > * * * > > David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator > > [Moderator Hat: OFF] > \*\* My apologies, Dave. I became a little overheated. My apologies, also, for name-calling to the person I insulted. Joseph ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/54 "2000-09-05T20:43:00Z")
This a.m.'s Chicago Trib carried a column by Leonard Pitts addressing those folk who are “spontaneously” reciting the Lord’s Prayer at football games to get around government involvement. A bit I found especially good: * * * “… Never mind that Christ himself said, ‘When you pray, go into your room, close the door.’ The problem with that injunction is than nobody gets to see how pious you are. Moreover, by keeping your prayers private, you compromise your ability to set the standard, to impose conformity, to render invisible or intimidate the Muslim, Buddhist, atheist or Jew who might have the temerity to come out to a football game on ‘your’ turf. …” * * * LPJ also speeks reasonably to the points of how it is impossible to stop anyone from praying whenever they want to ("…no one can stop you. No one even has to know. …"), as well as the fact that this campaign to pray out loud at public gatherings has little if anything with spreading the message of Christ("…Where’s the pugnacious attitude when it comes time to push people to volunteer in rest homes …"). Just wanted to bring attention to a fine article by what I consider a fine columnist. IMO, his primary agenda is reasonableness and honesty. BTW aha: “fire=bad”?! Guess you like your eggs extra runny. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/55 "2000-09-06T12:10:45Z")
I saw the same column and cut it out for later reference. So everybody else can enjoy it, the column is at: [http://www.chicago.tribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/article/0,2669,SAV-0009050115,FF.html](http://www.chicago.tribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/article/0,2669,SAV-0009050115,FF.html) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/56 "2000-09-06T13:03:11Z")
…to “The Lord’s Assault Prayer.” After all, its main public use these days by the fundies seems to be to get in the faces of people who don’t share their beliefs. I guess WWJD doesn’t apply anymore when they get ticked. Turn the other cheek? Yeh, right. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/57 "2000-09-06T17:45:46Z")
The FBI would have to enforce the law. Actually the Executive branch does the enforcing of laws. They would be the teeth. I guess congress must first pass a law which sets fines for missuse of government property in this manner and then Mulder and Scully would have to attend all the high school sporting events. (How many HS football games occur on a single weekend?) I went to a Catholic school. We had prayer all the time and there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/58 "2000-09-06T18:00:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s a link to the news story: An actual quote from that news story: > [@](#): > > - > > `The loudspeakers are paid for with our tax dollars, so we should be able to use them as we wish,'' Jackie Nelson, a Santa Fe resident, said from the stands Friday night. `If other groups want to pray that way, let them put their Buddhas or their wooden statues up and there and pray to their dead gods.’’\* Oh, dear. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/59 "2000-09-06T21:31:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satan \* > \*\*yosemitebabe: > > Nobody has anything against God or prayer. We object to WHEN and HOW in some cases when it infringes on our rights to be free from religion, and those rights of our children. > > * * * Word! ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825/60 "2000-09-06T21:34:10Z")
P.S. Check out the Onion this week ([www.theonion.com](http://www.theonion.com)). They have a story “Christian Fundamentalists Demand Repeal of Second Law of Thermodynamics”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-had-our-first-high-school-football-game-last-night-and-guess-what/31825.md?page=4)