# We Have Betrayed the Kurds **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420 "2019-10-07T14:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/301 "2019-10-15T01:52:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That doesn’t answer my questions. But of course, I suspect I will not get a substantive response to my question, because nobody was actually misinformed on a substantive matter. It was a stupid question. EVERYBODY was misinformed by what happened because of what ABC showed. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/302 "2019-10-15T02:00:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was a stupid question. EVERYBODY was misinformed by what happened because of what ABC showed. What was everybody misinformed about? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/303 "2019-10-15T02:02:33Z")
Some of the answers here are a classic example of sealioning. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/304 "2019-10-15T02:28:02Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > What was everybody misinformed about? the video shown by ABC. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/305 "2019-10-15T02:30:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Some of the answers here are a classic example of sealioning. It’s classic [Chewbacca defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense), as typically used by Trumpists. “And so you have to remember, when you’re in that jury room deliberatin’ and conjugatin’ the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does _not make sense!_ If ABC News shows an incorrect video, you must acquit Trump of making a calamitous decision in abandoning the Kurds! The defense rests.” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/306 "2019-10-15T02:30:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the video shown by ABC. So was everyone misinformed about the attack happening, or what the attack looked like, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/307 "2019-10-15T02:40:23Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So was everyone misinformed about the attack happening, or what the attack looked like, exactly? If you’re using a fake video as an example of what happened then both. It calls into question the validity of the report. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/308 "2019-10-15T02:55:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you’re using a fake video as an example of what happened then both. It calls into question the validity of the report. But what if there are other corroborated reports? Does one incorrect report invalidate all the other corroborated reports? That seems to be what you’re arguing. What exactly is it that you don’t you believe: 1. That this Turkish invasion of northern Syria is real? 2. That there is fighting going on? 3. That civilians have been killed? 4. That civilians have been deliberately killed? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/309 "2019-10-15T03:05:43Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > What exactly is it that you don’t you believe: ABC’s credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/310 "2019-10-15T03:13:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > ABC’s credibility. Oh, so, in your view, this thread about Trump’s decision to abandon the Kurds, is actually about how “fake” the mainstream media is. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/311 "2019-10-15T04:24:05Z")
This Turkey/Kurdish issue has cleaved apart the two factions that make up the Trumpist/New Republican movement. The amoral and corrupt non-True Believer/fellow traveller Republicans - typified by congressional Republicans such as McConnell and Lindsey Graham - have, for once, split with Trump over something. And they have done so strongly, with a level of criticism many levels of magnitude higher than I’ve ever seen them criticize him before. These people may be corrupt, but they’re not stupid. What’s left are the up-is-down, ignorance-is-strength True Believers, the hardcore MAGA cultists, divorced from reality, and believing only in what Trump says to be true - and what he says to be true is whatever he can spin out of his ass at any particular given moment that will further his own personal interests. It really is _1984_ mixed with Jim Jones stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/312 "2019-10-15T04:31:30Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Oh, so, in your view, this thread about Trump’s decision to abandon the Kurds, is actually about how “fake” the mainstream media is. :rolleyes: I’ve already stated my position. It’s a long standing civil war between the Kurds and Turkey. The Kurds are not our ally. Turkey is. We supported their effort to stop ISIS from destroying their cities. It was a multi-nation effort and it in no way made us their ally in their attempt to take land from Turkey. that’s on them. If Congress wants to back the Kurds against Turkey they can declare war, or a police action or invite Turkey out of NATO with a no confidence vote. If any of the other coalition nations want to back the Kurds then have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/313 "2019-10-15T04:35:01Z")
Do you approve or disapprove of Trump sending 2800 troops to Saudi Arabia? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/314 "2019-10-15T04:42:20Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Do you approve or disapprove of Trump sending 2800 troops to Saudi Arabia? Do you approve or disapprove of protecting American assets from attack in the Persian Gulf? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/315 "2019-10-15T04:43:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you approve or disapprove of protecting American assets from attack in the Persian Gulf? You answer my question first. I will answer yours if you answer mine first. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/316 "2019-10-15T04:50:29Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You answer my question first. I will answer yours if you answer mine first. I did. Sailed right over your head. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/317 "2019-10-15T05:00:42Z")
You’re so clever! Please be clear so I can understand your answer. ETA: A simple yes or no would suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/318 "2019-10-15T05:05:21Z")
Remarkably prescient [_NY Times_ article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/trump-said-hed-stay-in-syria-to-beat-isis-instead-hes-giving-it-new-life/2019/01/17/a25a00cc-19cd-11e9-8813-cb9dec761e73_story.html) from January by former diplomat Brett McGurk. Here’s what he wrote about Turkey: > [@](#): > > Fourth, on Syria, Turkey is not a reliable partner. The Syrian opposition forces it backs are marbled with extremists and number too few to constitute an effective challenge to Assad or a plausible alternative to the SDF. The areas of Syria that Turkey ostensibly controls, such as Idlib province in the northwest, are increasingly dominated by al-Qaeda. The United States can help Turkey protect its border, but entry of the Turkish military and Turkish-supported opposition fighters into SDF areas of northeast Syria — as is now being discussed — would precipitate chaos and an environment for extremists to thrive. [Robbie Gramer](https://twitter.com/RobbieGramer/status/1183809440581083137), _Foreign Policy_: > [@](#): > > NEW: Turkish-backed proxy forces with ties to extremist groups are deliberately releasing detainees affiliated with the Islamic State from unguarded prisons, two U.S. officials tell @ForeignPolicy > … > Ankara’s radical proxies are also apparently executing Kurdish prisoners and killing unarmed civilians, videos show ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/319 "2019-10-15T05:21:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was a stupid question. EVERYBODY was misinformed by what happened because of what ABC showed. No, it’s a legitimate question. If my local news reported that a house burned down on Main Street but showed a video of a house fire that happened two years ago on Park Street, then I’m not necessarily misinformed. If a house did burn down on Main Street today then I have been correctly informed of that information. The only way I was misinformed is if the story is false in addition to the video. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/320 "2019-10-15T06:08:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > ABC’s credibility. ABC made a mistake, as news people do, and issued a correction. Trump has lied thousands of times and has never made corrections. How is his credibility? Or doesn’t that count for you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=17)