# We Have Betrayed the Kurds **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420 "2019-10-07T14:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/321 "2019-10-15T06:10:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If only there was an article in the Constitution that granted Congress the power to declare war. Then they could show their unity. Who are we supposed to declare war on again? Maybe the magical countries willing to send troops to fight ISIS under the UN flag? Your foreign policy ability is somewhat below Trump’s. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/322 "2019-10-15T06:32:28Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Who are we supposed to declare war on again? Maybe the magical countries willing to send troops to fight ISIS under the UN flag? > > Your foreign policy ability is somewhat below Trump’s. Can the American people declare war on trump? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/323 "2019-10-15T06:35:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > ABC’s credibility. So do you believe the previous bullet points- I’ll repost to assist: 1. That this Turkish invasion of northern Syria is real? 2. That there is fighting going on? 3. That civilians have been killed? 4. That civilians have been deliberately killed? Or is it “what exactly the attack looked like”? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/324 "2019-10-15T09:17:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you approve or disapprove of protecting American assets from attack in the Persian Gulf? But I thought the President’s priority was “bringing the troops home”, not sending them abroad. We have been assured of this in this very thread. Sure, there are still US troops now under fire in Syria thanks to the President’s actions but they’ll probably all make it home soon. Probably. And which “American assets” are we protecting in Saudi Arabia? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/325 "2019-10-15T09:28:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you approve or disapprove of protecting American assets from attack in the Persian Gulf? Why shouldn’t Congress vote on it, as you suggested for Syria? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/326 "2019-10-15T10:12:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you approve or disapprove of protecting American assets from attack in the Persian Gulf? …do you approve or disapprove of [American nuclear assets](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/us-bombs-at-turkish-airbase-complicate-rift-over-syria-invasion)becoming bargaining chips? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/327 "2019-10-15T11:21:23Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why shouldn’t Congress vote on it, as you suggested for Syria? Because the President is charged with defending American assets. If Congress wants to interfere in a civil war that’s on them. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/328 "2019-10-15T11:23:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Because the President is charged with defending American assets. If Congress wants to interfere in a civil war that’s on them. What American assets are you talking about? The ones supporting the Saudi war in Yemen, which Congress has voted against supporting? And tell me again how you see a Turkish invasion of Syria to be a civil war. Talk about fake news. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/329 "2019-10-15T12:43:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you approve or disapprove of protecting American assets from attack in the Persian Gulf? If we are sending troops to protect _American_ assets, why is Saudi Arabia paying for them? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/330 "2019-10-15T13:12:35Z")
That didn’t take long. It definitely is unsettling but everyone knew this would happen. This shift in power will hurt the US in the Middle East for many years to come. > **[In Syria, Russia Is Pleased to Fill an American Void (Published 2019)](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/world/middleeast/kurds-syria-turkey.html)** > > As the United States withdraws from Syria, Russia is stepping in, running patrols to separate warring factions, striking deals and helping President Bashar al-Assad advance. > [@](#): > > Russia said on Tuesday that its military units were patrolling territory in northern Syria between Syrian and Turkish forces after the American withdrawal from the area, underscoring the sudden loss of United States influence in the area and illustrating how the power balance in the region has shifted rapidly in the past week. > > The announcement that Russian forces were now patrolling an area where the United States had maintained two military bases until Monday appeared to signal that Moscow was moving to fill a security void left by the American withdrawal. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/331 "2019-10-15T13:15:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, it’s a legitimate question. > > If my local news reported that a house burned down on Main Street but showed a video of a house fire that happened two years ago on Park Street, then I’m not necessarily misinformed. If a house did burn down on Main Street today then I have been correctly informed of that information. The only way I was misinformed is if the story is false in addition to the video. It’s not all that rare that I’m watching the news, and they start telling a story of a fire or a car accident, and they show a video of an old lady playing with kittens, or kids playing at a splash pad. Accidents happen, mistakes are made. If they doubled down on it, added some Sharpie to the footage that insisted that it was in Syria, then you could fault them on their credibility. As they corrected it fairly quickly, and the footage was for flavor rather than for information, I cannot see how anyone in good faith can use the mis-attributed video to impeach the story itself. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/332 "2019-10-15T14:10:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think I was. I suppose you’re getting that out of post #269 though, which is probably clumsily-worded enough to make such an interpretation possible. It was a response to your implied reading of the earlier post, and I didn’t hesitate to clarify when you asked for it. This seems like a particularly uncharitable interpretation. Claiming you said ABC made up this attack is an uncharitable interpretation of “it’s very obvious ABC News made up this particular attack”? Oh. > [@](#): > > For decades now the USA’s foreign policy position has swung back and forth on a number of matters as the White House changed hands (about every 8 years) from one party’s control to the other’s, and various other political considerations came into play. Well, of course it has. But when has it changed on a dime like this, other than in response to direct attacks like 12/7/1941 or 9/11/2001? Bush starting a gratuitous war in Iraq was a major change of policy, but Lord knows we had plenty of forewarning and time to object through and outside of the political process. In this case, we abandoned an ally literally overnight, with no chance for anyone to say anything. **Tell me when that, or anything like it, has ever happened before.** > [@](#): > > IMHO, foreign countries should probably be looking to ensure their own security without the need to rely on the USA. Maybe so, but shouldn’t we give them sufficient warning of what they can expect from us in the way of reduced support, so they can prepare for it, rather than just jerking the rug out from them overnight? > [@](#): > > I disagree. He campaigned as a bring-the-troops-home candidate who was going to make efforts to minimize our involvement in foreign entanglements. He won the election and this is just one example of him fulfilling that promise. Aside from his not having any consistent policy of bringing troops home (e.g. Yemen, Saudi Arabia), that’s sure a funny way of looking at what he did the other day. There was no exit plan to minimize the effect on the Kurds who’d helped us against ISIS just a few years ago, and were counting on our continued presence. Just BOOM, we’re out, good luck taking on the Turks by yourselves. > [@](#): > > I don’t think he should be impeached for that. But I guess that’s the way you **have** to look at it if you’re going to defend his doing it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/333 "2019-10-15T14:12:21Z")
Oh, and the Russians are already in the military base that Trump decided we would abandon so hastily. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/334 "2019-10-15T14:25:20Z")
[AFP](https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1184104499171840001): > [@](#): > > The UN has warned that reported summary executions of civilians in northeastern Syria carried out by pro-Turkish fighters could amount to a “war crime” and that Ankara could be “deemed responsible” Remember that the murder of unarmed Kurdish politician Ms. Hevrin Khalef, who was reportedly dragged from a vehicle and shot to death, was hailed by Turkish state-backed media as her being “neutralized” in a “successful operation”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/335 "2019-10-15T14:33:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As they corrected it fairly quickly, and the footage was for flavor rather than for information, I cannot see how anyone in good faith can use the mis-attributed video to impeach the story itself. Thus far nobody has been able to use it to impeach the story itself. They have done a swell job of distracting from the story, however. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/336 "2019-10-15T16:15:46Z")
Moderating: at least for the last few pages this has been a debate between a few posters. We have a place for that. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/337 "2019-10-15T16:38:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Moderating: at least for the last few pages this has been a debate between a few posters. We have a place for that. Since we are in the debate forum, I’m afraid that mod instruction is a tad opaque. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/338 "2019-10-15T16:39:14Z")
The Onion: “AIN ISSA, SYRIA—As they streamed out of detention camps in northern Syria following U.S. withdrawal of military support in the region, jubilant ISIS prisoners on Monday hailed their American liberators. “We never thought we’d see the day when someone would finally stand up for us and free us from the Syrian Democratic Forces’ clutches,” said ISIS member Mohsin Al-Lateef as hundreds of his recently liberated fellow jihadist militants praised President Donald Trump and raised American flags in tribute to their emancipators.” > **[Jubilant ISIS Prisoners Hail American Liberators](https://www.theonion.com/jubilant-isis-prisoners-hail-american-liberators-1839033474)** > > AIN ISSA, SYRIA—As they streamed out of detention camps in northern Syria following U.S. withdrawal of military support in the region, jubilant ISIS prisoners on Monday hailed their American liberators. “We never thought we’d see the day when someone... ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/339 "2019-10-15T16:41:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Since we are in the debate forum, I’m afraid that mod instruction is a tad opaque. I think that was the announcement of the thread being moved. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/340 "2019-10-15T16:45:44Z")
Oh, guess I didn’t notice that’s where it started. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=18)