# We Have Betrayed the Kurds **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420 "2019-10-07T14:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/341 "2019-10-15T17:46:47Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > The Onion: > “AIN ISSA, SYRIA—As they streamed out of detention camps in northern Syria following U.S. withdrawal of military support in the region, jubilant ISIS prisoners on Monday hailed their American liberators. “We never thought we’d see the day when someone would finally stand up for us and free us from the Syrian Democratic Forces’ clutches,” said ISIS member Mohsin Al-Lateef as hundreds of his recently liberated fellow jihadist militants praised President Donald Trump and raised American flags in tribute to their emancipators.” > [Jubilant ISIS Prisoners Hail American Liberators - The Onion](https://www.theonion.com/jubilant-isis-prisoners-hail-american-liberators-1839033474) Make me wonder if Trump has plans to build a hotel in the middle of ISIS territory. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/342 "2019-10-15T18:06:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > In this case, we abandoned an ally literally overnight, with no chance for anyone to say anything. **Tell me when that, or anything like it, has ever happened before.** The fledgling United States of America signed a treaty in 1778, the Treaty of Fort Pitt, offering the Lanape tribe recognition as a sovereign nation and adding a (deceitful, as it required Congressional approval) provision for statehood with representation in Congress. In turn, the Lanape tribe under Chief White Eyes would provide troops (guides) and aid during the revolutionary war. Chief White Eyes and some Lanape warriors joined an American expedition under General McIntosh against Fort Detroit. McIntosh probably thought he couldn’t reach Detroit before snowfall and established Fort McIntosh on the Ohio river. General McIntosh sent some of his men with Chief White Eyes and his men to establish a stockade at the Lanape “capital” of Coshocton, some 100 miles West. Somewhere along the way, the Americans murdered Chief White Eyes. The Lanape abandoned the expedition in disgust and General McIntosh was forced to abandon his campaign against Fort Detroit. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/343 "2019-10-15T18:59:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Oh, guess I didn’t notice that’s where it started. Sorry I should have been clearer for those who may not have been following the thread where it was. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/344 "2019-10-15T19:13:01Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Oh, so, in your view, this thread about Trump’s decision to abandon the Kurds, is actually about how “fake” the mainstream media is. :rolleyes: It’s really about ethics in [del]video game journalism[/del]war reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/345 "2019-10-16T00:00:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That didn’t take long. It definitely is unsettling but everyone knew this would happen. > > This shift in power will hurt the US in the Middle East for many years to come. > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/world/middleeast/kurds-syria-turkey.amp.html](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/world/middleeast/kurds-syria-turkey.amp.html) Wait, are you telling me that Syria is going to protect it’s own land and Russia is picking up the tab? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/346 "2019-10-16T00:06:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve already stated my position. It’s a long standing civil war between the Kurds and Turkey. The Kurds are not our ally. Turkey is. > > … > > We supported their effort to stop ISIS from destroying their cities. It was a multi-nation effort and it in no way made us their ally in their attempt to take land from Turkey. that’s on them. > > … > > If any of the other coalition nations want to back the Kurds then have at it. They didn’t take land from Syria. They were granted independance by various treaties withnthe West, which were broken by the West. Also, is it your argument that we had no self interest in fighting ISIS? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/347 "2019-10-16T00:07:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Wait, are you telling me that Syria is going to protect it’s own land and Russia is picking up the tab? No, Russia is going to join forces with two dictators and dominate a region where we desperately need allies. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/348 "2019-10-16T02:00:44Z")
> [@margin](#): > > No, Russia is going to join forces with two dictators and dominate a region where we desperately need allies. And who would they be? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/349 "2019-10-16T04:48:28Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Anyone feel better after Trump’s latest [Tweets](https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1181232249821388801?s=21)? > > I guess his “_great and unmatched wisdom_” makes it all better now :dubious: He… he…actually said that? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/350 "2019-10-16T06:47:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And who would they be? The one who gassed his own people and the one that’s releasing terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/351 "2019-10-16T06:52:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you approve or disapprove of protecting American assets from attack in the Persian Gulf? […protecting American assets.](https://twitter.com/andrewsweiss/status/1184140156690939904) LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/352 "2019-10-16T07:09:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Some of the answers here are a classic example of sealioning. There are good sealions on both sides. And some sealions are [toothless walrusses](https://schumanchu.eu/html/r1/r1_00126usseal.html) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/353 "2019-10-16T07:14:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Some of the answers here are a classic example of sealioning. The problem is that with some people it’s impossible to get them to respond. They’ll say they’re not answering you because you’re too hostile. And if you make every effort to show zero hostility, they’ll turn around and say you’re sealioning them. These people need to reach down into their shorts and find a pair. If they can’t handle a debate, they shouldn’t enter into one. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/354 "2019-10-16T13:12:15Z")
I’m beginning to strongly suspect Trump got played. Trump tried to pull all the troops from Syria last Dec. IIRC there were approximately 10,000. Trump reluctantly kept about 1500 in Syria. (recent reports indicate that’s about how many are leaving this time). That was a clear signal to Putin and Erdoğan that Syria was easy pickings. Trump has no stomach for conflict in Syria. It wouldn’t be hard to convince him to pull the remaining troops. Erdoğan makes a phone call to Trump. He quickly moves troops into Syria and attacks the Kurds. Trump reacts as expected and wimps out. Putin brokers a deal between Assad & the Kurds. Obviously the Kurds had no other option. It only took a few days. Putin extends his influence in the middle East, Assad reasserts control over the Kurdish region of Syria, and Erdoğan attacked Kurdish forces that he felt threatened Turkey. Quite a neat trick if this was planned. Dealing with Trump is like taking candy from a baby. The Kurds got betrayed, but that’s nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/355 "2019-10-16T13:25:11Z")
Everything happened too quickly and neatly. Turkish forces were attacking Syria the day after the phone call with Trump. Assad had several thousand troops ready to deploy in northeast Syria the day after the deal with the Kurds was finalized. It sure seems a bit too convenient. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/356 "2019-10-16T13:36:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m beginning to strongly suspect Trump got played. Ooooh! I love understatement competitions. Ahem: “I’m beginning to strongly suspect that Trump has an ego somewhat larger than normal.” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/357 "2019-10-16T13:44:42Z")
Trump’s ego certainly makes him easier to manipulate. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/358 "2019-10-16T13:49:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m beginning to strongly suspect Trump got played. > > …Erdoğan makes a phone call to Trump. He quickly moves troops into Syria and attacks the Kurds. Trump reacts as expected and wimps out. Putin brokers a deal between Assad & the Kurds. Obviously the Kurds had no other option. > > … > Quite a neat trick if this was planned. Dealing with Trump is like taking candy from a baby. > > … He wasn’t so much played, as he was simply told what to do. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/359 "2019-10-16T13:59:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Trump’s ego certainly makes him easier to manipulate. I’m having a hard time topping this statement. Maybe, “Trump’s hair sometimes looks odd.” ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/360 "2019-10-16T14:01:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Everything happened too quickly and neatly. > > Turkish forces were attacking Syria the day after the phone call with Trump. > > Assad had several thousand troops ready to deploy in northeast Syria the day after the deal with the Kurds was finalized. > > It sure seems a bit too convenient. Turkey was building up its forces on the border for years now. They’ve been ready to go for a long time. The Syrian Army was built up along the Southern border with Rojava. It’s not surprising they were ready to go as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=19)