# We Have Betrayed the Kurds **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420 "2019-10-07T14:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/421 "2019-10-17T04:23:10Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Sounds like a Milo Minderbinder operation. [del]Everybody[/del] Putin gets a share! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/422 "2019-10-17T05:20:36Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Also, Trump trying to persuade authoritarian “strongman” leader Erdogan to change his mind by saying: “don’t be a tough guy.” > > And then Trump deliberately leaking that letter so everyone knows that if Erdogan backs down and stops the invasion, he’s “not a tough guy”. > > :smack: That’s really the most “amusing” part - because Trump himself is (or sees himself as) an authoritarian strongman. A vulgar bully, if you prefer. Therefore you would expect him, amongst all his other inadequacies and ignorances, of which I’m told there are some, but you would expect him to _at least_ understand how the mind of a bully works. How his own obsession with looking strong and decisive and independant and his abject fear of ever looking weak or inferior to anything or anyone _works_. Then reflect that “if I wanted to convince me, here’s how I’d do it”. But nope. Even a fucking mirror is among those skills not mastered, which is honestly surprising in a devout narcissist. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/423 "2019-10-17T05:51:09Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, I’ll let him answer that one, but WE destroyed a bunch of our bases to keep them out of anyone’s hands. We also did convince the Kurds not to fortify from the north (i.e. from where the Turks would be coming from), saying we’d be there and the Turks wouldn’t attack while we were there. Which was true enough. If you need a cite for that I can probably dig it up, but it’s pretty widely known. This goes back to police that predates Trump in fact. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Yes. Under a deal agreed a couple of months ago - brokered by the U.S. - Kurdish military forces withdrew from the border area with Turkey and removed fortifications. > > _[Military Times](https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/10/07/syrias-kurds-stand-to-lose-all-gains-from-us-pullout-near-turkish-border/)_: Thank you both for the answers provided. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/424 "2019-10-17T05:54:46Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How is it not our responsibility to discuss such matters with our allies before taking an action that literally got our allies killed? I’m on board with the idea that “we should have talked to our allies first.” It’s probably worth mentioning here that Turkey is also a nominal ally, and we did apparently have some discussion with them about the matter beforehand, but anyways … it’s been quite obvious to me for some time now that President Trump overvalues / misuses the element of surprise when it comes to diplomacy / military matters, at least at times. His springing this on the world suddenly seems to be another case of that. It’s one of the aspects of his governing approach / personality that I don’t particularly care for. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/425 "2019-10-17T06:11:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m on board with the idea that “we should have talked to our allies first.” It’s probably worth mentioning here that Turkey is also a nominal ally, and we did apparently have some discussion with them about the matter beforehand, but anyways … it’s been quite obvious to me for some time now that President Trump overvalues / misuses the element of surprise when it comes to diplomacy / military matters, at least at times. His springing this on the world suddenly seems to be another case of that. It’s one of the aspects of his governing approach / personality that I don’t particularly care for. But are you going to change anything? Are you going to consider that Trump isn’t capable of being President? And that if he isn’t capable of being President, he needs to be removed from office? Or is this the moment where you look around and say “Trump is doing a terrible job…but I’m going to stick with him for another six years and see if he gets better”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/426 "2019-10-17T07:44:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But are you going to change anything? Are you going to consider that Trump isn’t capable of being President? And that if he isn’t capable of being President, he needs to be removed from office? > > Or is this the moment where you look around and say “Trump is doing a terrible job…but I’m going to stick with him for another six years and see if he gets better”? I don’t think he’s doing a “terrible job” and nor do I believe he “isn’t capable of being President” (I considered it, and found the idea laughable). He’s not doing _everything exactly_ as I would prefer, but the last guy didn’t either, and I don’t think he deserved impeachment for it either. When the election rolls around, I’ll look back at his time in office, and look at who his opponent ends up being, and decide who I think will do a better job for the country for the next four years. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/427 "2019-10-17T12:48:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think he’s doing a “terrible job” and nor do I believe he “isn’t capable of being President” (I considered it, and found the idea laughable). > > He’s not doing _everything exactly_ as I would prefer, but the last guy didn’t either, and I don’t think he deserved impeachment for it either. > > When the election rolls around, I’ll look back at his time in office, and look at who his opponent ends up being, and decide who I think will do a better job for the country for the next four years. Will green lighting an invasion to kill the Kurds who wiped out ISIS at our behest be, in your opinion, a reason to vote for Trump or against him? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/428 "2019-10-17T12:57:39Z")
Releasing ISIS on (Trump’s tiny fingers crossed) only Europe was a Trump 4-D chess master-move. Friggin genius. Very stable, no less. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/429 "2019-10-17T14:02:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Will green lighting an invasion to kill the Kurds who wiped out ISIS at our behest be, in your opinion, a reason to vote for Trump or against him? His handling of Syria over the last week or so is a point against him. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/430 "2019-10-17T14:18:17Z")
It just occurred to me that this withdrawal of troops should be called the Battle of Dumbkirk. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/431 "2019-10-17T14:30:07Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/432 "2019-10-17T14:39:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > His handling of Syria over the last week or so is a point against him. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA…gasp!..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/433 "2019-10-17T18:02:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > His handling of Syria over the last week or so is a point against him. “a point.” Reminds me that I’m old enough to remember when the GOP was considered the superior party with respect to national security and defense. Remember all that “Mommy Party” and “Daddy Party” stuff from the 1980s and 1990s? What a laugh. Now Daddy’s hooked on meth, and the Mommy Party’s doing it all, the way women usually do when the men get irresponsible. Except Daddy can still break into the house and shoot off his guns through the walls. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/434 "2019-10-17T18:17:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > When the election rolls around, I’ll look back at his time in office, and look at who his opponent ends up being, and decide who I think will do a better job for the country for the next four years. And then you’ll vote for the Republican. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/435 "2019-10-17T18:29:33Z")
Pence & Pompeo negotiated a short cease-fire with Turkey. > **[Pence, Pompeo secure cease-fire agreement in Syria after meeting with Turkish...](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pence-pompeo-secure-cease-fire-agreement-in-syria-after-meeting-with-turkish-president)** > > Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced Thursday that they have reached a cease-fire agreement between Turkey and Kurds, following a meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara. > [@](#): > > The deal is for a 120-hour cease-fire, during which time the Kurdish-led forces could pull back. All Turkish military operations under the recent offensive known as Operation Peace Spring will pause during that time, and the operation itself will come to an end upon the completion of the Kurdish withdrawal, under the terms of the deal. Pence said a safe zone between the two sides will be established. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/436 "2019-10-17T18:29:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And then you’ll vote for the Republican. It’s very probable. I consider the dems’ agenda generally destructive to the country. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/437 "2019-10-17T18:31:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s very probable. I consider the dems’ agenda generally destructive to the country. And you prefer when it is specific. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/438 "2019-10-17T18:32:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s very probable. I consider the dems’ agenda generally destructive to the country. Yeah, like not back-stabbing people who shed blood for our security could have grave consequences for our standing in the world. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/439 "2019-10-17T18:46:06Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > […US troops bombed their own anti-ISIS headquarters as Turkey-backed fighters closed in during Trump’s hasty retreat.](https://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-bombed-its-anti-isis-headquarters-as-turkish-troops-advanced-2019-10?r=US&IR=T) > > Protecting American assets from attack by bombing them themselves first. LOL. Someone should write a book about that. You know, bombing your own stuff so the enemy doesn’t have to. Or is it so that your ally doesn’t have to? Or is so your ally doesn’t capture your stuff and use it against your other ally? Ninja’d by Jasg ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/440 "2019-10-17T19:34:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Pence & Pompeo negotiated a short cease-fire with Turkey. > [Trump celebrates 'great day for civilization' as Pence, Pompeo secure Syria cease-fire agreement | Fox News](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pence-pompeo-secure-cease-fire-agreement-in-syria-after-meeting-with-turkish-president) So the cease fire involves the Kurds doing something. Not the Turks doing anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=23)