# We Have Betrayed the Kurds **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420 "2019-10-07T14:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/141 "2019-10-10T09:19:00Z")
> [@Trump](#): > > [The Kurds] didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy. Forget it - he’s rolling. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Turkey to be hit with sanctions. Give it seven weeks and he’ll pardon them. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/142 "2019-10-10T12:07:00Z")
The US president told reporters that the Kurds “didn’t help us in the second world war, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example – they mention the names of different battles, they weren’t there” Of course Trump is allied with Germany - presumably because **they were at Normandy**. :mad: :eek::smack: P.S. If you really want to know how dumb the President is: Trump said he learned that the Kurds didn’t help in Normandy from a “very, very powerful article”… Who knew that a persecuted minority in the Middle East didn’t join in the D-day landings? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/143 "2019-10-10T13:27:33Z")
> [@glee](#): > > The US president told reporters that the Kurds “didn’t help us in the second world war, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example – they mention the names of different battles, they weren’t there” > > Of course Trump is allied with Germany - presumably because **they were at Normandy**. :mad: :eek::smack: > > P.S. If you really want to know how dumb the President is: > > Trump said he learned that the Kurds didn’t help in Normandy from a “very, very powerful article”… > > Who knew that a persecuted minority in the Middle East didn’t join in the D-day landings? 😕 If anyone is interested, here’s the “very powerful article”. > **[Critics Aghast As Trump Keeps Word About No More Wars](https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2019/10/08/critics-aghast-as-trump-keeps-word-about-no-more-wars-n2554328)** > >   TL/dr TRUMP GOOD, EVERYONE ELSE BAD. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/144 "2019-10-10T14:30:16Z")
It seems that the Turkish leader is using humans as \*weapons \*now. I probably didn’t phrase that accurately, so his own words: > [@Recep Tayyip Erdogan](#): > > “Hey EU, wake up. I say it again: if you try to frame our operation there as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you,” he said. Heard it on my morning news; found something online here: [https://www.telegraph.co.uk…](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/10/turkeys-erdogan-threatens-send-millions-refugees-europe-eu-calls/) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/145 "2019-10-10T15:09:56Z")
The sad but simple truth is, this is the fate of people like the Kurds - people with a distinct identity but no nation-state advocating for them. The Turkish have done this before, destroying the Armenian people within their borders to make the land easier to rule. And now they’ll try to do it to the Kurds. After the Germans tried to wipe out the Jews, we all said, never again. Yet since then we’ve seen genocide in Cambodia, Rwanda, and many other countries. Usually, the world’s response is tepid, comes too late, and does little of consequence. I fear that this will be the case here, too. It’s unfortunate - the Kurds share many of our values, they’ve greatly aided us in the war against ISIS, and they could be our staunch allies. They are exactly the kinds of people we should ally ourselves with if we want to bring peace, democracy, and human rights to the region. Instead, we kowtow to dictators and monarchs and debase ourselves before them. It’s disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/146 "2019-10-10T15:11:00Z")
I want to be hopeful, but I’m afraid that the Kurds – like the people of Hong Kong – are well and truly screwed. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/147 "2019-10-10T15:17:03Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > It seems that the Turkish leader is using humans as \*weapons \*now. I probably didn’t phrase that accurately, so his own words: > > Heard it on my morning news; found something online here: [https://www.telegraph.co.uk…](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/10/turkeys-erdogan-threatens-send-millions-refugees-europe-eu-calls/) This is not the first time he’s done something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/148 "2019-10-10T17:31:44Z")
A stupid, short-sighted, ally-betraying, immoral, pro-Russia foreign policy decision. In other words, just another day in Trumpworld. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/149 "2019-10-11T00:06:23Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Sure, we’ll successfully sanction a country where we have at least 5000 US airmen and store tactical nukes. :smack: > > ETA: I’m sure Mike Flynn’s thrilled! Now if only Turkey’d get rid of all those Muslims, he’d be in heaven. How is that any different from making a formal legal finding that Canada is a threat to the national security of the United States? You know, the country that is a key part of NORAD and early warning in the far north? A NATO member? The US no longer has allies. You have countries with whom you have treaty relations, but you no longer have the trust that the world “ally” carries. We can’t trust the US. Haven’t since the day your leader refused to affirm that an attack on one NATO member is an attack on all. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/150 "2019-10-11T00:21:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Americans will be shocked at the outcome of slaughter and upheaval in Syria. You actually believe that most Americans care about brown people being killed in the Middle East? We’ve been drone bombing people for almost 2 decades. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/151 "2019-10-11T01:10:27Z")
You know, for years, liberals have been asking what it would take for Trumpers to ditch Trump. And the answer is: Probably foreign policy. [Pat Robertson is now speaking out against Trump.](https://news.yahoo.com/why-evangelicals-oppose-trump-over-syria-225647485.html)And if Trump ever abandoned not just the Kurds, but started criticizing and abandoning Israel as well, his entire evangelical coalition may be at risk. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/152 "2019-10-11T01:13:59Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You actually believe that most Americans care about brown people being killed in the Middle East? We’ve been drone bombing people for almost 2 decades. That was actually my message to Cruz and Cornyn, how Donald Trump and the GOP are complicit in the genocide of “fellow Christians” and the GOP, in order to save “God’s people”, need to focus on who caused this massacre - Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/153 "2019-10-11T01:18:18Z")
The Kurds brought it on themselves when they decided not to support George Washington in 1776. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/154 "2019-10-11T01:20:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You know, for years, liberals have been asking what it would take for Trumpers to ditch Trump. And the answer is: Probably foreign policy. [Pat Robertson is now speaking out against Trump.](https://news.yahoo.com/why-evangelicals-oppose-trump-over-syria-225647485.html)And if Trump ever abandoned not just the Kurds, but started criticizing and abandoning Israel as well, his entire evangelical coalition may be at risk. LOL, they’ll be back in Trump’s hand soon enough. They aren’t going to ditch him when it time to vote. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/155 "2019-10-11T02:04:05Z")
The lesson for the Kurds, for the Afghans, for any “partner” in American imperialism is, just wait: we’ll stab you in the back eventually. Leader of the free world. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/156 "2019-10-11T10:46:32Z")
Graham doesn’t care about the Kurds: [https://www.axios.com/report-sen-lindsey-graham-called-us-ally-kurds-a-threat-in-august-phone-call-4577c0f5-d443-45d4-9f7c-8583e1d5a0bb.html](https://www.axios.com/report-sen-lindsey-graham-called-us-ally-kurds-a-threat-in-august-phone-call-4577c0f5-d443-45d4-9f7c-8583e1d5a0bb.html) > [@](#): > > Report: Sen. Lindsey Graham called U.S. ally Kurds a “threat” in August phone call He was pranked twice by Russian pranksters, who recorded and released the call to the media. Other points: > [@](#): > > Driving the news: Graham said in the August phone call that he was “sympathetic” to Turkey’s “Kurdish problem,” per Politico, and that he “told President Trump that Obama made a huge mistake in relying on the YPG Kurds.” > > ``` > Of note: Graham was actually speaking with Russian pranksters Alexey Stolyarov and Vladimir Kuznetsov, according to Politico, and not Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar. > > ``` > > Catch up quick: Graham also referenced the president’s personal interest in a “Turkish bank case” that appears to refer to the 2017 case against gold trader Reza Zarrab. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/157 "2019-10-11T11:14:58Z")
Fun Fact: The US gave Turkey intelligence that it may have used in planning the attack on the Kurds: > [@](#): > > **The US shared intelligence with Turkey that may have helped it target the Kurds in Syria** > > - The US provided Turkey with intelligence, including surveillance video and information from reconnaissance aircraft, that may have aided in its assault on the US-allied Kurdish forces in Syria, The New York Times reported. > > \*The intelligence sharing continued as late as Monday — two days before Turkey invaded Syria to go after the Kurds — according to the report. > > \*Past reports suggest the US in 2017 began sharing more intelligence on the Kurds with Turkey to quell the Turkish government’s anger over Trump arming Kurdish forces in Syria. > > … > > The US was providing intelligence to Turkey on the region as part of a counterterrorism partnership up until Monday, a Department of Defense official told The Times, the day after the Trump administration announced it was pulling US troops from northeastern Syria ahead of a Turkish operation. > > … > > Two US officials told The Times that as Turkish military officials planned the assault over the past few weeks, they were provided with American surveillance video and information from reconnaissance aircraft. Information like this could prove useful in picking out targets for air strikes. And there’s this gem: > [@](#): > > At a June press conference in Japan, the president spoke about the ongoing tensions with Erdogan over the Kurds and suggested he was standing in the way of a massacre. > > “Frankly, he wanted to wipe out — he has a big problem with the Kurds, as everyone knows,” Trump said at the time. “And he had a 65,000-man army at the border, and he was going to wipe out the Kurds, who helped us with ISIS.” > **[The US shared intelligence with Turkey that may have helped it target the...](https://www.businessinsider.com/us-shared-intelligence-turkey-may-have-aided-attack-on-kurds-2019-10?utm_source=reddit.com)** > > The US provided Turkey with intelligence that may have helped it target Kurdish forces that played a vital role in the US-led fight against ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/158 "2019-10-11T13:46:55Z")
You mean it shared intelligence with a NATO partner about a foreign threat…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/159 "2019-10-11T14:00:36Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You mean it shared intelligence with a NATO partner about a foreign threat…:rolleyes: Yep, and were doing it just about up until the invasion. Life’s tough when you’re working with both sides like that. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420/160 "2019-10-11T14:24:53Z")
Trump’s ‘win’ here is actually gonna wind up extending the US’s presence in the region. The irony it burns. American disengagement not only allows ISIS a rebirth (a ‘renaisisance’), but strengthens both Iran’s and Putin’s hand while also creating more opportunities for them to exploit. As a bonus, Saudi will not take kindly to an extending Turkish influence and that should create another dynamic of instability. So, unless the US is going to abandon its commitment to annihilating ISIS, and to safe passage in the Persian Gulf, and “standing firm” with Saudi Arabia, US troops _will_ be back. In larger numbers, with greater chance of escalation, and for the longer-term. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-have-betrayed-the-kurds/841420.md?page=9)