It’s weird how two different people could have such opposing viewpoints. For example, one person, Barack Obama had the viewpoint that Osama bin Laden, terrorist, should be killed. And he was. Another person, Donald Trump, has the viewpoint that ISIS, terrorists, should be watered like a thirsty plant, and they are. Weird.
Didn’t we all know that if Trump was going to wave a flag, it was going to be white one?
I just didn’t expect it in this context.
That’s a weird way to describe waterboarding.
I wasn’t aware that I said that they killed off the Kurds in Turkey.
I said that they treated them brutally. They have killed them, there have been massacres. There have been forced relocations. They have intentionally prevented food from coming into the region to deliberately starve them out.
That was pretty much exactly what the dictator in charge of oppressing the Kurds in his country claimed. Our intel said otherwise. Trump decided to side with the dictator.
What was actually going on, it seems, is that we were acting as a shelter for civilian Kurds to live in relative peace, and for their military to be effective against fighting our enemies. We also provided shelter to those who were detaining our enemies, who right as we talk on this board, as escaping and going back to killing us and our allies.
Well, I don’t disagree with he idea that we shouldn’t be unilaterally the world’s policeman. But you seem to be saying that we should withdraw from the UN and let them deal with it without us.
I don’t think the situation vis a vis the Kurds and Turkey is all that dissimilar from Israel and the Palestinians, at least in terms of a struggling population of stateless people being treated with extreme disfavor from their neighboring nation state.
Our relation to them is pretty radically different. We have not spent the last few years fighting alongside the palestinians to defeat a radical Islamic terrorist organization.
Are you aware you used the word genocide?
I’m not aware of Trump sending in troops backing Turkey.
Explain how letting the UN deal with it leaves us out of the loop? It IS the loop.
Yes, are you aware of what context I used it in? Did I use it in the context of the Kurds inside of Turkey? No, I did not. Are you aware that genocide doesn’t mean that you have killed off everyone, but that you are intentionally destroying a people in whole or in part?
Do you consider the treatment that the Kurds get in Turkey to be fair and equitable?
Side note, before we get bogged down on semantics, would you say that Nazi Germany had plans for genocide against the Jews, even though they were not able to kill all of them?
Are you aware of the intel that we shared with them, outlining the exact positions of Kurdish forces?
Are you aware that we convinced the Kurds to dismantle their fortifications that were specifically to deter Turkey from invading, and right after they finished doing so, at our request, we abandoned them?
We did more than just stop being there for an ally in their time of need, we actively betrayed them.
You were the one saying that we shouldn’t be involved. Are you changing your mind now?
the term is used to convey an attempt to kill a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
do you consider the treatment of Turks get at the hands of the Kurds to be be fair and equitable? It’s a civil war not a genocide.
Seriously? They were systematically rounding them up and killing them.
who exactly is “them”. Are you referring to the SDF who is actively attacking our NATO ally?
If you support a Kurdistan state then make your case. But as long as the Kurds want a separate state it’s a civil war and it’s against a NATO ally. We were supporting the Kurds with our military presence. I personally would like to stay out of it.
Which is what they are currently doing with the Kurds in Syria.
The Kurds are the ones that are being oppressed in this situation, so there are no Kurdish hands treating the people of Turks in any way shape or form.
That’s actually not an answer. Do you consider that to be genocide? I’m just asking so that we have some sort of baseline of definitions to operate under. Does the fact that there are still Jews mean that the Nazi’s did not commit genocide?
I mean the peope that, prior to a few days ago, were our allies.
The Kurds don’t want a separate state within Turkey, they want it in Syria and/or Iraq. We were not supporting the Kurds in Turkey with our military, we sere supporting the Kurds in Syria. We were out of it. This has nothing to do with Turkey, other than Turkey wanting to come over their borders into another country’s sovereign territory, in which we and the Kurds were in the way. We got out of the way, leaving the Kurds to be killed.
If you have paid any attention whatsoever of the atrocities that have been done to the Kurds, then you would understand why they would be trying to find a place they could call home.
I assume that by your statements, you are also against the US support for Israel, as all of your concerns about backing the Kurds apply many fold over to the situation with us supporting the existence of that country as a home to a historically oppressed ethnic group.
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You mean the UN that we’re not paying our dues for?
Like, we roll into a restaurant and tell them that we are only going to pay 80% of the cost of the meal, but they need to wash and detail our car because it’s just so dirty? You think that’s how things work in the real world?
Again, define who you’re referring to. There are plenty of Kurds to go after in Turkey. Why are they specifically going after the town of Ras Al-Ain?
I’m not sure where you’re getting this from. You can google" Kurdistan map" to better understand this. Pick any map that comes up. It covers Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran. the vast majority of it is in Turkey.
Look at the logic of it. If the Kurds just wanted part of Syria then there wouldn’t be a problem in Turkey. The kurdish political power varies from country to country. They have an autonomous relationship with Iraq that goes back to 1970 and was protected by the Northern no-fly zone in connection with the Gulf War. It was a multi-nation effort.
You would assume wrong. Israel is an established country and is not related to this situation.
Yes, that UN. Deduct what we spent on ISIS from the bill. they probably owe us money.
I’m curious to see if Turkey will stop their attack. Would they risk a war with Syria and its ally Russia?
Eventually the Kurds had to work out a deal with Assad. I wish they had done it before the attack when they had a stronger bargaining position.
We owe them $2.6 billion for… wait for it… peacekeeping missions.
When your meal provides 22% of the restaurant’s revenue, you might well be able to demand a discount, and a free car wash, and a footrub.
I have repeatedly defined who I am referring to: the Kurds in Syria that we fought alongside against ISIS. Why are they going after Ras Al-Ain, you ask? Because they are grabbing territory that we no longer defend. Why wouldn’t they? It’s free land for the taking.
You keep bringing up the Kurds in Turkey, maybe that is how you keep confusing yourself as to what this is about. The Kurds in Turkey are not part of this discussion, they are already under the oppressive rule of Turkish forces. It is Turkey extending their reach over Kurds in Syria due to our betrayal that this thread is about.
Yes, that is the territory that they have both historically and contemporaneously occupied as an ethnic group. That is not necessarily the territory that they would be happy to settle for if they could call it their own.
Borders were drawn across them. They didn’t cross borders.
Where would you suggest the Kurdish people go?
The problem in Turkey is they have committed a number of atrocities against the Kurdish population that has resided there for much much longer than Turkey was a country. There are occasional uprisings, especially when Turkey blocks food or other necessities from entering their regions.
BTW, not that Iraq has anything to do with this at the moment, but their “autonomous relationship” involved systematic extermination campaigns against them, including the use of chemical weapons. It was not until the US led coalition enforced the no-fly zone that the Kurds in northern Iraq were protected from Iraqi forces. There was talk of that time of creating a Kurdish state in Iraq, but Turkey at that time was against it, as then they would have a sovereign Kurdish state on their border.
So, if the European powers had followed through on their deal after WWI and carved out Kurdistan for them at that time, you would be in support of their established country now?
Well, you get what you pay for.
When your party takes up most of the restaurant’s tables, and you have already gotten a car wash, foot rub, and a pretty pink princess pony, demanding a discount and stiffing the bill seems a mite bit entitled to me.