“Sanctions on Turkey will be lifted as soon as the Kurds surrender to Turkey! Great deal! Congratulations to everyone! Ethnic cleansing mission complete!”
Brett McGurk :
Steve Herman , VOA :
Zeke Miller , AP :
32 km x 450 km = 14,400 km²
I’ve been reading about that cease-fire, and it says this:
But it doesn’t seem like the Kurds were part of the meeting nor did they agree to that cease-fire. How can that be?
The cease fire is an opportunity to evacuate Kurdish civilians and wounded. The Kurds don’t have to withdraw. They can nullify the agreement. “Nope, we aren’t budging”.
What can Turkey do? Shoot at them? Oh wait, that’s happening anyway.
XT
October 17, 2019, 9:18pm
445
aceplace57:
The cease fire is an opportunity to evacuate Kurdish civilians and wounded. The Kurds don’t have to withdraw. They can nullify the agreement. “Nope, we aren’t budging”.
What can Turkey do? Shoot at them? Oh wait, that’s happening anyway.
I don’t think the Kurd’s have the choice to simply say ‘Nope, we aren’t budging’, as Turkey has a much more powerful military, and, as noted earlier, we fucked them by talking them out of building defenses. They are going to have to retreat and take whatever ceasefire they can get in the short term.
This has been a sad cluster fuck all around, and I’m frankly mystified how anyone could spin this to make the US come out of this to the good. Myself, I’m leaning towards Turkey having personally threatened Trump’s Turkish property as to why he did what he did, as nothing else makes any sense. Certainly not this knee jerk monkey fucking a football travesty of a pull out, with little preparation or even notice. Hell, we put our own troops at pretty great risk doing this idiotic thing, let alone fucking over an ally.
Flashback to August 2019: New Pentagon report blames Trump troop withdrawal for ISIS surge in Iraq and Syria (The Hill , 08/09/19):
A new report released by the Department of Defense this week revealed that the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has been emboldened by the partial removal of U.S. troops from Syria and policy shifts in Iraq.
The report, released by the Pentagon’s inspector general, details how the drawdown of U.S. troops has forced the Trump administration to rely on third-party monitoring of some areas, including a refugee camp set up by U.S.-backed forces.
The scaling back of U.S. forces, the report continued, has allowed ISIS forces in the area to recruit new members and grow their forces without U.S. interference.
Trump to Pelosi yesterday: “I hate ISIS more than you do. ”
Monty
October 18, 2019, 1:28am
447
Declan:
Sounds like Rawanda
Is that how Trump spells it?
Walken_After_Midnight:
Trump’s sudden decision to greenlight the Turkish invasion and pull out U.S. troops from Syria was made without consultation with his advisers and the military, who were caught by surprise by it. The Erdogan letter is also clearly personally dictated by Trump, rather than being written in a formal way by policy-making staff as is the norm when writing a letter to another head of state. It’s a one-man foreign policy, and that man is both profoundly ignorant and unhinged.
At this point, I would not be surprised at all if Trump starts appointing himself as acting secretary of more than a few federal departments.
HurricaneDitka:
I’m on board with the idea that “we should have talked to our allies first.” It’s probably worth mentioning here that Turkey is also a nominal ally, and we did apparently have some discussion with them about the matter beforehand, but anyways … it’s been quite obvious to me for some time now that President Trump overvalues / misuses the element of surprise when it comes to diplomacy / military matters, at least at times. His springing this on the world suddenly seems to be another case of that. It’s one of the aspects of his governing approach / personality that I don’t particularly care for.
Are you serious? “Element of surprise” should have no place in governing a country.
I hesitated to ask this, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. How is the Democratic Party’s platform (not “agenda”; it’s a party platform) “generally destructive to the country”?
Be specific and, as this is Great Debates, feel free to actually bolster your specifics with some kind of substantiation.
Sen. Mitt Romney :
James Hohmann , Washington Post :
Erdogan had prepared for a confrontational meeting, but the mood softened when it became clear the U.S. officials were asking only for what the Turks regarded as token concessions. In return for a brief pause, there’d be no U.S. sanctions or requirement for a Turkish withdrawal.
Mike Pence’s request for a temporary cease-fire seemed to be “face-saving, for the U.S. side,” the Turkish official in the Foreign Ministry said. “It was as easy a negotiation as we’ve ever had,” the official said.
Bone
October 18, 2019, 2:50am
449
Monty:
I hesitated to ask this, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. How is the Democratic Party’s platform (not “agenda”; it’s a party platform) “generally destructive to the country”?
Be specific and, as this is Great Debates, feel free to actually bolster your specifics with some kind of substantiation.
No. This is a hijack so please drop it. If you’re interested feel free to start a different thread.
[/moderating]
Trump at rally on Turkey and the Kurds:
Rukmini Callimachi , New York Times :
To grasp the extent of the crimes the Arab militias fighting for Turkey are carrying out in Syria, read the autopsy of the Kurdish politician executed a few days ago. Her legs & jaw were broken, she was dragged by her hair until the skin of her scalp came out & repeatedly shot:
CNN : Kurds say Turkey is violating hours-old ‘ceasefire’ in northern Syria
Clashes continued on the border between Turkey and Syria on Friday, according to eyewitnesses and Kurdish fighters, despite US Vice President Mike Pence’s announcement that he and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan had brokered a five-day ceasefire there.
Shelling and artillery fire was reported Friday in the border town of Ras al-Ain, one of the targets of Turkey’s week-old offensive against Kurdish fighters, who have long been backed by the United States.
The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) told CNN that shelling by the Turkish military and the Syrian rebel proxies supporting them has hit a number of civilian areas in Ras al-Ain, including a hospital. The SDF says five fighters were killed in the attack.
The Guardian : UN investigates alleged use of white phosphorus in Syria
UN chemical weapons inspectors have announced they are gathering information following accusations that burning white phosphorus was used by Turkish forces against children in Syria earlier this week.
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former commander of the UK’s chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear regiment, said: “The most likely culprit is white phosphorus. It is a horrific weapon, and has been used repeatedly during the Syrian civil war; unfortunately its use has become increasingly normalised.”
JohnT
October 18, 2019, 2:55pm
455
The ex-Turkish ambassador to the United States is openly mocking Trump on Twitter:
The Turks are using these 120 hours to re-arm and resupply. Come Monday, the true genocide will begin.
I do hope Trump is seeing all this in his daily twitter feed.
XT
October 18, 2019, 3:25pm
457
Maybe John Oliver needs to get the Catheter Cowboy to do another spot on Fox so Trump can learn some things about what his actions have caused.
Grey
October 18, 2019, 3:44pm
458
Holy hell, we’re now at the point where diplomatic niceties, however forced and false, don’t matter anymore.
JohnT
October 18, 2019, 4:44pm
459
Trump, in defending Turkey’s actions against the Kurds, uses the phrase “ultimate solution”.
“Just spoke to President @RTErdogan of Turkey. He told me there was minor sniper and mortar fire that was quickly eliminated. He very much wants the ceasefire, or pause, to work. Likewise, the Kurds want it, and the ultimate solution, to happen. Too bad there wasn’t…”
Nothing to see here, guys!
JohnT:
Trump, in defending Turkey’s actions against the Kurds, uses the phrase “ultimate solution”.
“Just spoke to President @RTErdogan of Turkey. He told me there was minor sniper and mortar fire that was quickly eliminated. He very much wants the ceasefire, or pause, to work. Likewise, the Kurds want it, and the ultimate solution, to happen. Too bad there wasn’t…”
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1185219641972539392?s=19
Nothing to see here, guys!
Yesterday, Trump spoke of the Kurds living along the border, saying that Turkey “had to have it cleaned out.”
