# "We haven't many students". British English speakers requested. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2006, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397 "2006-09-20T10:51:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/1 "2006-09-20T10:51:47Z")
Does this wording sound normal, or slightly awkward to you? My counterpart (the other English teacher I work with, who’s Bulgarian) uses this construction a lot. I asked her if the school had extra textbooks, and she said “No, they haven’t any more.” Which sounds weird to me (I’d say “they don’t have any more”), but I’m an American, and I know she was taught British English, and it does sound sort of British to my ear. And, I should mention, her English isn’t all that great, which is why I’m asking at all. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/2 "2006-09-20T10:57:59Z")
It’s probably not what you’d hear the majority of speakers say, but it’s certainly something that would be used and understood here in the UK. “We haven’t much time”, “We haven’t much money” etc. To me it sounds rather more Scottish than southern English. Personally, I’d usually say “we don’t have many students” or we haven’t got many students", but the forumulation “we haven’t many students” is perfectly acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/3 "2006-09-20T11:00:01Z")
It’s a common construction in Ireland. Speaking as an English person I’d think it a little quaint. Personally, I’d say “we don’t have many students”. But that’s a lot more complex to teach as EFL than the other construction. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/4 "2006-09-20T11:08:22Z")
[Morrissey] I would go out tonight But I haven’t got a stitch to wear [/Morrissey] It sounds slightly formal to me but it’s not incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/5 "2006-09-20T11:14:33Z")
[QUOTE=Small Clanger] It sounds slightly formal to me but it’s not incorrect. [/QUOTE] Nor is it what the OP is asking about. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/6 "2006-09-20T11:59:26Z")
It sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but definitely more British than American. For what it’s worth, I was born in England but grew up in the US and grew up being exposed to more British English than American at home. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/7 "2006-09-20T12:11:15Z")
She needs either a “got” or a “to do” to make it sound idiomatic to you. But I think it’s formally correct; I want to say it’s an older and more formal useage. One variant is “They haven’t got any more”. The other is “They don’t have any more”. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/8 "2006-09-20T12:27:54Z")
Whether it’s grammatically correct, or lazy speech, I can’t decide, but it does sound pefectly acceptable to my British ears. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/9 "2006-09-20T12:35:17Z")
There’s the Radio 4 comedy programme _[I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue](http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/clue.shtml)_. To my ear, “got” is superfluous and ugly in this construction, although it could do with a comma after “Sorry”. “I haven’t a clue” sounds much more natural than “I haven’t got a clue” or “I don’t have a clue”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/10 "2006-09-20T12:53:54Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] It’s a common construction in Ireland. Speaking as an English person I’d think it a little quaint. Personally, I’d say “we don’t have many students”. But that’s a lot more complex to teach as EFL than the other construction. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily: in Spanish you have the “no” before the verb, not combined with the verb as in English. We were taught the two forms “don’t verb” and “verbn’t” and the first one sounds more natural to us because it’s “more like Spanish”… you know there’s a “no” in there before getting to the “action word” (the “do” is not the “action word” but a modifier on it). I don’t know if my explanation makes any sense, but the gist is, we found the “don’t have” easier to use. May have been just my classmates, ymmv, etc etc ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/11 "2006-09-20T13:10:53Z")
Yes, we don’t have any bananas We haven’t got any bananas today…? Doesn’t quite flow… ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/12 "2006-09-20T13:13:39Z")
“Yes, we haven’t any bananas, old boy…” ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/13 "2006-09-20T13:55:23Z")
I had to read your sentence a few times. Sounds absolutely fine to me, not what I’d write but I use that kind of construction in speech every day. Maybe it’s a Scottish thing? ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/14 "2006-09-20T14:11:07Z")
[QUOTE=e-logic] “We haven’t much time”, “We haven’t much money” etc. [/QUOTE] I hear and use this construction somewhat regularly, right here in Mid America. But then I’m also a fan of slightly archaic stuff like “I’ve not been to England” and “Shall I butter your bagel?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/15 "2006-09-20T14:36:02Z")
\I wouldn’t see anything odd in it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/16 "2006-09-20T14:51:42Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] To my ear, “got” is superfluous and ugly in this construction, although it could do with a comma after “Sorry”. [/QUOTE] I agree; _I have a red pencil_ is better than _I have (or I’ve) got a red pencil_ _Sorry, I haven’t any pencils_ is better than _Sorry, I haven’t got any pencils_ ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/17 "2006-09-20T15:46:21Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] There’s the Radio 4 comedy programme _[I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue](http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/clue.shtml)_. To my ear, “got” is superfluous and ugly in this construction, although it could do with a comma after “Sorry”. “I haven’t a clue” sounds much more natural than “I haven’t got a clue” or “I don’t have a clue”. [/QUOTE] That’s partly due to the scansion - I’m **Sor** ry I **Have** n’t A **Clue** bounces along v. nicely. However, I’d usually say “I haven’t got a clue” in normal conversation. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/18 "2006-09-20T16:14:24Z")
Sounds fine to me, too, although I also use the ‘haven’t got a clue’ version myself. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/19 "2006-09-20T16:26:27Z")
Sounds OK to me (and Sorry I Haven’t a Clue is a great show…must look it up online.) [aside] In which I evidence another interesting bit of British construction…the missing pronoun. Not “I must look it up”. Part of the British self-effacement…of which they are very proud 😉 . And while I’m here and we’re talking about “got”, I thought it was interesting that they don’t have “gotten”. To the point that it was commented on when I used it. And then there’s my favo(u)rite British usage; “sat”. As in, not “I was sitting there waiting for the train…” but “I was sat there waiting for the train” (or even, "Was sat there waiting for the train…). I like it. I find myself using it even amoung you heathen Americans. [/aside] ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397/20 "2006-09-20T16:36:52Z")
Not British at all, but it sounds absolutely normal to me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-havent-many-students-british-english-speakers-requested/373397.md?page=2)