# We love you. You have your Nobel Prize. Now, please shut up! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630 "2002-12-09T22:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/81 "2002-12-10T04:35:01Z")
Maybe the rule only counts with elected presidents, not supreme court apointed ones…Maybe it would be wrong if Carter publically disagreed with Gore… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/82 "2002-12-10T04:38:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > \*\*The thing that I find most laughable is that while Carter strongly criticizes **both** Clinton and Bush, everyone seems to forget that he was one of the worst, most inept, most useless presidents in the past century. > > I really can’t imagine anyone taking him too seriously. \*\* Um, hello, Camp David accord? And post-presidency, Habitat for Humanity, working tirelessly for humanitarian causes? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/83 "2002-12-10T04:39:36Z")
Oh, and didn’t Teddy Roosevelt criticize both Taft and Wilson? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/84 "2002-12-10T04:42:35Z")
:: Astounded yet again at **Duckie** ’s search skills :: Damn, girl! Google needs to take your last name, the way you’ve turned it into your bitch. People would _pay_ you to do that for them. And when **Duck Duck Goose Corp.** needs legal representation, you know who to call. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![l1I235](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@l1I235](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/l1I235)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/85 "2002-12-10T04:52:37Z")
Okay, december, I’ve heard bad things about you, how extreme you are, etc. I kinda just blew it off and ignored you for the most part. But this time you’ve gone too far. No one bashes my man Jimmy Carter. Wait a second, everyone bashes him. I love you Pres. Carter! I don’t care what they say! Anyway, you’re mad because he isn’t in agreement with Bush? Those of you who are pro Iraq, let me ask you this: What has Iraq done that we haven’t? They have weapons of mass destruction. _So do we!!_ They ignore the UN _ahem…_ They are ruled by a non-elected power…Wait, that’s us!! Crimes against their own people… Oh wait. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/86 "2002-12-10T04:54:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*Yeah, that was sorta the point I was making, **RexDart**. But I don’t think the sordid reputation of the presidency (or politics in genreal) is entirely unearned post Nixon. Of all the presidents who have served in my life time, Carter is the only one who I’d welcome into my home, and I still think he was a poor president. A heckuva nice guy, but not a great leader. The rest of them, well, I’d spit in their face if it weren’t a waste of perfectly good saliva. > \*\* What about Ford? Seems like a nice guy. He was a collegiate football player, might be a good guy to toss back a beer with and catch a game. He didn’t do anything shady. Pardoning Nixon was something he felt he had to do to put the whole incident behind us, so we could move on. I’d let Clinton into my house, but I don’t have a wife or daughters, so it wouldn’t be a huge risk. I don’t think the elder Bush would come into my house, since I went to a public university, so I’m beneath him. The younger Bush seems like a fun guy, we could party…I’d definitely tell him to come if he brought his daughters 😉 Reagan would never remember the directions to my house, so it wouldn’t come up. I guess I’m just not as bitter, I don’t hold people to very high standards. I think most people are nice and kind, and I could be friends with just about anyone. I don’t really hold anything against someone unless they did it to me personally or a close friend of mine. **DDG** , I am certainly aware of other presidential “scandals”, including Teapot Dome, and the shady dealing with Johnson over the end of Reconstruction. I was a history major, I have a degree in it, I had to take plenty of American history. I just think of those corrupt presidents as brief exceptions along the way. I think most presidents were honest and well-intentioned. My personal opinion regarding Iran-Contra and the Clinton scandals is that there isn’t much there. The people who grew up in the Watergate era are predisposed to suspect wrongdoing in the White House, so the media ends up digging and digging for scraps to feed the willing public. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/87 "2002-12-10T05:10:05Z")
> [@](#): > > My personal opinion regarding Iran-Contra and the Clinton scandals is that there isn’t much there. Consider the possibility that you’ve grown up under a deluge of media information about scandals, so that when a real one comes along, you’re burned out? If the Clinton scandals–plural–were “not much there”, why was he impeached? Rex, there was an actual _trial_. [http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/resources/1998/lewinsky/](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/resources/1998/lewinsky/) > [@](#): > > It was a scandal that riveted America. President Bill Clinton’s affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky and his subsequent denial of that affair in a legal deposition led to Clinton becoming the second U.S. president to be impeached. Clinton was acquitted by the Senate in the impeachment trial but the scandal tainted his presidency. How old were you in 1998? How much of that do you remember? Iran-Contra–look at all these people who were lined up and charged with felonies. You don’t thing it’s a big deal for government officials to be convicted of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and perjury? [http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/summpros.htm](http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/summpros.htm) “Desensitized”, that’s the word I was looking for. You’re so used to hearing about scandals in Washington that you’re desensitized. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/88 "2002-12-10T05:20:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know what this tradition is called, nor anything about its history. Can you find any information about it? It’s just a convention, December, it doesn’t have to be codified. Decent men, when they hand over the keys to their successors, have always understood that they’re supposed to get offstage and stay out of the way. When your turn is over, you go home. It doesn’t need to be written down somewhere. Everybody seemed to understand it instinctively, from George Washington on down. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/89 "2002-12-10T05:24:58Z")
Make a list for me of the specific things that Jimmy Carter did or said since January 1981 that you would consider “not going home”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/90 "2002-12-10T06:18:01Z")
**RexDart** : Well, OK. Maybe Ford, but I’d have to hide all the breakables first. But if Ronald Reagan showed up at my front door, I’d greet him with a shotgun. Okay, first I’d have to have him wait while I ran out and bought a shotgun, but then… No, first I’d ask him how he cured himself of Alzheimers, _then_ I’d ask him to wait while I bought a shotgun, _and then_ I’d greet him at the door with it. Anyway. Reagan bad. I was, what, fourteen when he left office? And I still bear a considerable grudge. Nixon I’d let into my house before Ronald Reagan. I’ve got nothing but mild comtempt for the two Bushes, and I’m still bitter about Clinton lying to the American people. Not about the sex thing, I don’t blame him for that. I’m pissed at him for lying about being a Democrat. I don’t really think that we’ve just had a bad run of presidents lately. I think they’re fairly good exemplars of the breed. Maybe it was different in the earliest days of our country, when we were still a minor, jumped-up bunch of colonials, but with very few exceptions, I think the nature of the office is to attract either the power-hungry or the easily manipulated. The genius of the American political system is that you get so many villains pulling in opposite directions, the end result is a tolerable middle ground. ---
**Author:** ![l1I235](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@l1I235](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/l1I235)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/91 "2002-12-10T06:28:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mademoiselle \* > \*\* > > They have weapons of mass destruction. > > _So do we!!_ > > \*\* Let me add… **And we’ve used ours twice!!** ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/92 "2002-12-10T13:38:41Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## \*Originally posted by El\_Kabong \* Question for december: no citizen of the United States may publically disagree with a presidential policy. Yes or no? > > What’s your point? The point is just what my question asks; seems simple enough to comprehend. Your OP seems to imply that Carter cannot and should not speak against the policies of a sitting president. You gave no reason in the OP as to why you believe this to be so. In later responses, you talk vaguely about some “tradition” of former presidents not criticising current presidents. I am simply trying to determine what your position really is. Should only former presidents be gagged from public dissent, or do you peresonally feel that no citizen should criticize the policies of a sitting president? If that question is too difficult for you to understand, I’ll propose a simpler one: does your OP have anything at all to do with the fact that the sitting president is Republican and the former president a Democrat? Take all the time you need. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/93 "2002-12-10T13:43:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*I guess Carter just must hate America. There’s simply no other possible explanation for publically disagreeing with a sitting president. \*\* Especially as one as smart and experinced as Bush. :rolleyes: **december** that has to be the lamest post you have done in w hile (which is saying something). You are no Fox News, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/94 "2002-12-10T13:46:12Z")
Am I understanding this correctly? Is **december** saying that Carter should forfeit his civil right to freedom of speech because of some “tradition”? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/95 "2002-12-10T13:47:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Nixon I’d let into my house before Ronald Reagan. Big mistake. Zombie ex-presidents make a horrible mess, and that deadbeat made 3 long distance phone calls from my house. I was ready to impeach his non-living ass myself when that phone bill came. . . . ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/96 "2002-12-10T14:16:03Z")
The only instance here of anyone saying that anyone else does not have a right to a public expression of opinion is **december** ’s denial of that right to President Carter. There’s no fool like an old fool, apparently. But we can still support our troops without supporting the President, right, Trent? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/97 "2002-12-10T14:27:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*Make a list for me of the specific things that Jimmy Carter did or said since January 1981 that you would consider “not going home”. \*\* An entire list? I’ll start with one. In 1994, Carter was President Clinton’s representative, negotiating with North Korea, who was trying to develop nuclear arms. A recall columnist who recently opined that Carter took considerable initiative, first in pushing himself forward to “help” and later in moving the US toward the agreement that Clinton and North Korea eventually signed. Of course, this agreement resulted in a mad dictator acquiring nuclear weapons, a bad result for not only the United States and potentialy other countries as well. **El\_Kabong** , note that Clinton and Carter are both Democrats. **Trion** – No. No. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/98 "2002-12-10T14:54:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, this agreement resulted in a mad dictator acquiring nuclear weapons, a bad result for not only the United States and potentialy other countries as well. From what I’ve read on the subject (here’s a [Wikipedia](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_nuclear_weapons_program) synopsis for the history impaired), North Korea was on track with it’s plutonium bomb production long before the 1994 crisis. If you’re going to blame anyone for that cockup it should be Bush the greater, or Ronald before him, not the poor bastards who got stuck with trying to clean up the results of someone else’s foreign policy blunders. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/99 "2002-12-10T15:09:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*From what I’ve read on the subject (here’s a [Wikipedia](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_nuclear_weapons_program) synopsis for the history impaired), North Korea was on track with it’s plutonium bomb production long before the 1994 crisis. If you’re going to blame anyone for that cockup it should be Bush the greater, or Ronald before him, not the poor bastards who got stuck with trying to clean up the results of someone else’s foreign policy blunders. \*\* **Squink** , your cite says, > [@](#): > > North Korea has been attempting to obtain nuclear weapons since the late 1970’s So, you’re back to Carter again.😛 Seriously, whatever blame you want to assess President Carter, Reagan, and Bush Sr., there’s no doubt that the 1994 Carter-Clinton agreement failed in its effort to prevent NK from getting nukes. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630/100 "2002-12-10T15:18:42Z")
There certainly is a precedent for ex-presidents to refrain from criticizing sitting presidents, but it has often been ingnored. Pretty much every campaign cycle. As noted above T. Roosevelt was always good for a sound bite. BUT Here is what Carter said: Carter did not directly criticize the Bush administration, saying instead, for example, that his views on Iraq were “completely compatible, at least at this point” with those of the White House [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32620-2002Dec9.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32620-2002Dec9.html) As noted later in the article, he walked a fine line and it good be argued that his comments were in way of advice to the president, something for which there is a great deal of precedent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-love-you-you-have-your-nobel-prize-now-please-shut-up/141630.md?page=6)