# We must cut down on the number of nations **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 28, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401 "2013-10-28T00:06:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/1 "2013-10-28T00:06:42Z")
Here’s the scenario. Tomorrow, an alien saucer lands outside the United Nations building in New York City. A hulking becaped reptilian alien exits the craft and says in gruff English that the way our geopolitics is structured guarantees a future q-bomb detonation that will someday destroy all life on Earth. Their top scientists and simulations have come up with a solution that avoids this; cut down the number of nations. Every nation on [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_United_Nations#Current_members) list must join with one other to become one new nation; they have observed this in the Federal Republic of Germany and German Democratic Republic becoming modern Germany. Since there are an odd number of nations they will allow precisely 1 to remain unmerged. Three or more becoming one will not work, according to their calculations it must be two joining to become one country. The names of the new countries they’ll leave that to us. If we split a current country and then just rejoin it or try and trick them by just saying we’ve done it but going about our business as always it won’t count. If in one solar year we have not accomplished this they will raise the temperature of the planet by one million degrees a day. For five days. He repeats his message in equally gruff Arabic, Chinese, French, Russian and Spanish then flies off. Which countries make obvious bedfellows? Which countries would demand to be the one exception. Could we do it, or would certain nations doom us? Obvious candidates are the U.S. and Canada as the ‘United North American States’ or some such; the federal state model lends itself well to expansion. Australia and New Zealand also share common heritage and language. Korean unification would get a shot in the arm although South Korea gets a real bum deal if it goes ahead. The Russian Federation could admit one of the old USSR provinces if they’re down with it. In case you think I’ve gone nuts I was inspired by various fascinating ideas to make the UK and France effectively one country, most recently during [the Suez Crisis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-British_Union#Suez_Crisis_.281956.29) and also WWII; > [@](#): > > The final “DECLARATION OF UNION” approved by the British War Cabinet stated that[1] > > ``` > France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations, but one Franco-British Union. The constitution of the Union will provide for joint organs of defence, foreign, financial and economic policies. Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain, every British subject will become a citizen of France. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/2 "2013-10-28T00:12:51Z")
You didn’t specify that geographical proximity is a requirement to this, so as a Canadian, I’d like to ask that we join with the UK instead. I think our culture and heritage is more in line that way then with the US. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/3 "2013-10-28T00:15:12Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > You didn’t specify that geographical proximity is a requirement to this, so as a Canadian, I’d like to ask that we join with the UK instead. I think our culture and heritage is more in line that way then with the US. Nope, nations across the world from each other could join and it would satisfy their requirements as long as the humans could make it work. We live in a globalised interconnected age so it’s not impossible as far as modern national logistics and what have you go. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/4 "2013-10-28T00:19:48Z")
I don’t have anything to contribute, but I applaud the Duchy of Grand Fenwick shout-out in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/5 "2013-10-28T00:34:51Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > You didn’t specify that geographical proximity is a requirement to this, so as a Canadian, I’d like to ask that we join with the UK instead. I think our culture and heritage is more in line that way then with the US. As a Canadian who’s been to both countries, I disagree. The British are weird and far away. _We’re also the best match for the United States_, which by the rules set down by the aliens must join with someone and we’re supposed to be working together here so the aliens don’t blow us up, or we blow ourselves up, or whatever. Mexico can join too if they want but they may also wish to join a Central American Union. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/6 "2013-10-28T00:44:41Z")
As it’s a made-up country anyway, Belgium with either France or the Netherlands, probably the latter. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/7 "2013-10-28T01:06:10Z")
A lot of these pairings could be based on historical unions. So: UK + Ireland Spain + Portugal Germany + France 😃 Austria + Hungary Czech Republic + Slovakia Egypt + Syria Israel + Palestine Ethiopia + Eritrea Sudan + South Sudan South Africa + Namibia Pakistan + Bangladesh Indonesia + East Timor Colombia + Panama Does the country have to be an independent nation? I hear that Argentina really wants the Falkland Islands for some odd reason. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/8 "2013-10-28T01:08:37Z")
France and Monaco seems to make sense. Ditto Vatican City and Italy. No fuss, no muss. We can probably get Denmark/Norway and Sweden Finland into it. Africa gets harder. There’s much bad blood between many neighbors there. Argentina/Chile? Panama/Colombia? I don’t think PRC/Taiwan would work out at all. Maybe Taiwan/Phillipines? Spain/Portugal? Believe it or not, Iran/Afghanistan makes a certain amount of sense. I can’t see Greece/Turkey. Maybe Turkey/Cypress? Or, to cause a certain amount of real chaos, who the hell does Israel merge with? Lebanon? The Palestinian Authority? Jordan? Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/9 "2013-10-28T01:08:51Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Does the country have to be an independent nation? I hear that Argentina really wants the Falkland Islands for some odd reason. To avoid disputes about what is and isn’t a country (disputed territories and such) they’re only counting current UN member states, which the Falkland Islands aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/10 "2013-10-28T01:11:21Z")
I love this CGPGrey video asking how many countries there really are. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4AivEQmfPpk/maxresdefault.jpg "How Many Countries Are There?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AivEQmfPpk) ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/11 "2013-10-28T01:29:34Z")
Israel would never agree to join with Palestine because eventually Jews would be.a minority in the combined country. I only see Israel agreeing to join with one country and that’s the US. So US and Israel join is my suggestion. Still I think we are doomed because of that one country gets stay unique exemption, countries would be squabbling which one gets to not join another right up until the last day. Oh, and Taiwan isn’t a member state of the UN, so according to the OP they don’t have to join with anyone I guess. Same with Vatican city, not a member state. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/12 "2013-10-28T01:41:04Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > A lot of these pairings could be based on historical unions. So: > > UK + Ireland > Spain + Portugal > Germany + France 😃 > Austria + Hungary > Czech Republic + Slovakia > Egypt + Syria > Israel + Palestine > Ethiopia + Eritrea > Sudan + South Sudan > South Africa + Namibia > Pakistan + Bangladesh > Indonesia + East Timor > Colombia + Panama > > Does the country have to be an independent nation? I hear that Argentina really wants the Falkland Islands for some odd reason. I’m not seeing UK + Ireland as a particularly happy union, for some reason. But I am struggling to find a partner for the UK. I’d go with Malta for now. We have historical connections and they don’t seem to object to us _too_ much. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/13 "2013-10-28T01:44:49Z")
> [@Jonathan Chains](#): > > Or, to cause a certain amount of real chaos, who the hell does Israel merge with? Miami. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/14 "2013-10-28T01:53:20Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > To avoid disputes about what is and isn’t a country (disputed territories and such) they’re only counting current UN member states, which the Falkland Islands aren’t. Well that’s good news for the Vatican, Kosovo, & Taiwan. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/15 "2013-10-28T02:01:07Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > I’m not seeing UK + Ireland as a particularly happy union, for some reason. Ireland and Iceland could work. We could call the new country Irceland. 😃 Even with the bad blood, South Korea and Japan could work. They could become a giant mecha cultural pop force. China might not like it, but they’re probably the only country that could merge with North Korea’s current leadership. Unfortunately, Mongolia is left alone. Maybe with one of the 'Stans? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/16 "2013-10-28T02:02:06Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > A lot of these pairings could be based on historical unions. So: > > UK + Ireland > Spain + Portugal > Germany + France 😃 > Austria + Hungary > Czech Republic + Slovakia > Egypt + Syria > Israel + Palestine > Ethiopia + Eritrea > Sudan + South Sudan > South Africa + Namibia > Pakistan + Bangladesh > Indonesia + East Timor > Colombia + Panama > > Does the country have to be an independent nation? I hear that Argentina really wants the Falkland Islands for some odd reason. Most of those pairs of countries hate one another more than they hate any other countries, and, in several cases, have only quite recently emerged from long, bitter struggles to separate from one another, that at least one of the pair is definitely not going to agree to reverse. More often than not, adjoining countries (especially, but not only, in Europe) have a particular hatred for one another because there is along history of warfare between them. In most cases there would be a better chance of getting nations to agree to unite with ones far away from them, than with nearby ones. On the whole, though, I think the task is hopeless. We would be best advised to just hunker down and wait for the q-bomb to hit. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/17 "2013-10-28T02:10:07Z")
Lesotho + South Africa Liechtenstein + Switzerland ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/18 "2013-10-28T02:47:33Z")
Can’t see the Finns joining Sweden, they would probably be better joined with Estonia, at least that way they can understand each other. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/19 "2013-10-28T04:34:43Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Which countries make obvious bedfellows? Which countries would demand to be the one exception. Could we do it, or would certain nations doom us? the most problematic nations would IMO be: Israel: US is the only option, but would the US take them? North Korea: China doesn’t want them and forcing unification with the south is going to be messy. Japan: No surrounding asian country would agree to merge with Japan, they still have too much bad blood over occupation. Korea / Japan hate is still high. I’m sure there are probably similar examples in Africa and South America but I know less about the geopolitics involved. In short we’re doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401/20 "2013-10-28T04:45:08Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Israel: US is the only option, but would the US take them? What about Taiwan, or [Nauru](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru)? Actually, Nauru could make out like a bandit with a deal like this—auction off the rights to “merge” with a larger nation that didn’t want to change it’s nature or sovereignty that much. “People’s Republic of China and Nauru,” “The Islamic Republic of Iran and Nauru,” “Japan and Nauru,” etc. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-must-cut-down-on-the-number-of-nations/672401.md?page=2)