# We need a News of Weird, Racism version **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 28, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562 "2011-07-28T00:06:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/81 "2011-07-28T18:34:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I’d agree with you except for one thing. > > I’m 99% certain that if this story was about white kid at a majority-black school, there wouldn’t be so many posters being incredulous at the thought that racial politics would be behind making her a co-valendictorian with a lesser qualified black student. Instead of apologetic theories being brought forth about her being a teenage parent, the whole situation would be 1) roundly dismissed as a disgraceful outrage, 2) a sign of the dumbing down of America due to the soft bigotry of low expectations, and 3) proof that anti-white racism is a pervasive threat. > > In sum, we’d be seeing evidence for [this](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110523124220.htm) article. Sadly, I think I agree with you. And **Rand Rover** , your beaver argument is more like this: A tree falls in the forest in an area with a historically high concentration of beavers. Monstro, you with the face, et al: “Those damn beavers! Always chewing on trees and knocking them down!” Everyone else: “How do yo know it was beavers? Could have been loggers, or a lightning strike, or maybe the tree just rotted and died.” M, ywtf, etc.: “Nope, it’s beavers. Look at the teeth marks on the trees, the traces of brown fur on scene, the other trees in the beaver dam. Lightning, loggers, and rot are all good points, but there’s no record of a thunderstorm, no sign of rot, and the area isn’t known for logging. Why are you denying that it was beavers when it’s so obvious? Beavers in the forest are a pervasive problem.” EE: “Oh? Why do you think there is a pervasive beaver problem?” M—: “Because trees are always faling in the forest, there is a long history of beaver activity in the area, overwhelming anecdotal and circumstantial evidence, and occasional clear-cut cases, of which we believe this is an example.” EE: “And how do you know that beavers are responsible in those cases?” M—: “Because of the pervasive beaver problem! There is ample evidence for this issue going back centuries! What are you, stupid or something?” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/82 "2011-07-28T18:41:29Z")
I’m not convinced this story has presented its “teeth marks on the trees and traces of brown fur at the scene,” at least not yet. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/83 "2011-07-28T18:43:56Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Just to be clear, I sympathize completely with the young lady being upset due to the apparent arbitrary selection of a co-valedictorian. I just don’t see a viable lawsuit in it. There are have been previous lawsuits very similar to this one that been successful, according to [this](http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/politics-raising-children/2011/jul/26/black-arkansas-student-validictorian-white/) article. > [@The Washington Times](#): > > “When you have a system of blacks not being in top positions, it reinforces the notion that we are not qualified,” Walker said during a call to his office this morning, but that is not true, especially in the cases that Walker has represented over the years. > > Walker won a similar case 38 years ago. In 1973, Larry Christopher was determined to have the highest grade in his class and was set to be named valedictorian of his Stephens, Arkansas school. In a sudden unexpected maneuver, administrators at Stephens High School decided to factor in grades from correspondence courses an 11th grade white student had taken between her sophomore and junior years in order to deny Christopher his spot as top senior in his class. > > But for the school counting those extra classes not even taken at the school, Christopher would have been named valedictorian. Hurt by the decision, he decided to sue. > > In a surprise decision, conservative former congressman and Lyndon Johnson judicial appointee Oren Harris ruled in Christopher’s favor and ordered that he be designated the proper valedictorian. Christopher went on to medical school and is now a research physician in Atlanta. Please note that Walker is Wimberly’s lawyer in this case. The suit being made on her behalf includes an allegation that black students at Wimberly’s school were discouraged from taking AP classes in a manner that was discriminatory, thereby allowing whites to have an unfair academic advantage over them. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/84 "2011-07-28T18:49:45Z")
I wish _I_ had a pervasive beaver problem. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/85 "2011-07-28T18:52:35Z")
One of you folks should contact the district court in Arkansas to let them know it was definitely racism. Then they won’t have to waste all that time and taxpayer money on pointless things like, oh, hearing all the facts of the case. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/86 "2011-07-28T18:54:54Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I wish _I_ had a pervasive beaver problem. Just sayin’. Hey, there’s always rot. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/87 "2011-07-28T19:06:23Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > One of you folks should contact the district court in Arkansas to let them know it was definitely racism. Then they won’t have to waste all that time and taxpayer money on pointless things like, oh, hearing all the facts of the case. I don’t think anyone is saying it must be racism to the exclusion of all other causes, just that, given the facts as presented and the general cultural background, racism is far more likely than any other cause. (I may have exaggerated wrt traces of beaver fur at the scene.) It may well be something else, but the counterargument needs to be stronger than a less likely scenario resulting from wild speculation. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/88 "2011-07-28T19:15:01Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > One of you folks should contact the district court in Arkansas to let them know it was definitely racism. Then they won’t have to waste all that time and taxpayer money on pointless things like, oh, hearing all the facts of the case. Hey, can we extend this appeal to both sides of the debate? We have some folks in here actually _defending_ the school’s decision purely on the basis of her being a teen mom. (Which is pretty damn incredible if you think about it. Teen mothers don’t deserve to have their grades publically recognized now? Really? People really believe that?) I’m actually leaning towards this possibly being a case in which Wimberly and the other kid got the same grades on everything, but the other kid took half a credit more. But I have my doubts that this neatly explains the whole situation simply for the fact the lawyer in this case has dealt with these situations before, and likely wouldn’t blow his wad on something that would take all of 2 seconds to invalidate. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/89 "2011-07-28T19:20:45Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Usually I can’t muster up much sympathy for litigious valedictorians. But this is just ridiculous. And it’s so weird to me because the “big mess” they were trying to avoid? I can’t imagine it being any bigger than the big mess that’s sure to follow from this. Your obvious mistake was to expect logical and decent behavior from school administration. The odds of that are almost as low as a school board doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/90 "2011-07-28T19:25:51Z")
A valedictorian had a B in something? I’ve never heard of this. Where I went to HS (small town) and where my sons do/did (large city) the fight is among people who have never made anything less than an A, but the GPA is weighted so that the A in band counts less (but not a lot less) than the A in AP physics. A friend of mine was tearing out her hair because in her sophomore year she got a B in gym, thereby ruining her chances of being valedictorian. (It did, too. She came in 3rd in overall GPA.) I would also like to point out that 38 years ago is not now. Although it sounds like this might be a town that hasn’t quite gotten the message yet. I hope the people who wanted to avoid “a big mess” are hiding under their desks. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/91 "2011-07-28T19:36:41Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m not convinced this story has presented its “teeth marks on the trees and traces of brown fur at the scene,” at least not yet. Exactly. Dr. Drake, what specific facts in this situation do you think are equivalet to brown fur and teeth marks? And the fact that there was a beaver problem in the past says nothing about whether there is a beaver problem now. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/92 "2011-07-28T20:08:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Exactly. Dr. Drake, what specific facts in this situation do you think are equivalet to brown fur and teeth marks? > > And the fact that there was a beaver problem in the past says nothing about whether there is a beaver problem now. Fact #1: A student was recognized as valedictorian, and then secondarily told she would be co-valedictorian. Fact #2: Her co-valedictorian has a different GPA and is white. Fact #3: There is a historic imbalance of power between blacks and whites. Fact #4: There is some tension in this part of the world between blacks and whites. Now, I grant there could easily be a scenario that takes all these facts into account but where racism is not the deciding factor. To date, though, no alternative theory is very strong. It could be sexism, pure incompetence, or any combination of the above. I just think that the facts point to racism first and other theories second, barring further evidence. (For instance, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ms. Wimberly was in fact #2 and, rather than apologize for the error and explain the calculations, this was a ham-handed way to make everyone happy. But I still suspect that the awareness of black girl vs. white boy was a factor.) ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/93 "2011-07-28T20:22:15Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Where I went to HS (small town) and where my sons do/did (large city) the fight is among people who have never made anything less than an A, but the GPA is weighted so that the A in band counts less (but not a lot less) than the A in AP physics. Our school did not weight the AP courses, which meant that I was one of _nine_ co-valedictorians, that being how many kids had 4.0s. They didn’t count PE grades, though, or I wouldn’t have made it. (In fact, I also had a B in AP History, but that teacher had a policy of going back and retroactively changing the grade to an A for anyone who got a 5 on the AP exam.) ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/94 "2011-07-28T20:45:23Z")
I think we need to put this in the context of the 21st century and the little snowflakes that have fallen into our high schools. You see, I suspect the parents of that white kid with the slightly-lower GPA who had a half credit more found out that their precious child would not be named valedictorian. They went to the principal and lo-and-behold they are now co-valedictorian. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/95 "2011-07-28T22:34:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Is the mom working at the school supposed to make her more or less credible? I’m not sure what you’re getting at, **Rand**. > > I know in this economy, the last thing I’d want to do is call out my employer unless I was 100% sure I was going to be able to make my case. I just assume other people would have the same sense. Yes, but decided not to respond in light of the entirely valid warning for Rand’s behavior. > [@monstro](#): > > I think they are more worried about white parents fleeing than more blacks flocking. A black valedictorian might send a message that the school is too black (and thus not good enough…since if a black kid can be a valedictorian, how good can the curriculum be?) > > -snip. I don’t want to believe this, with a black president… But yeah. I think this is true. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > **you with the face** , I think most of us just can’t wrap our minds around discrimination this blatant. “There has to be another explanation—even if they thought it, nobody in 2011 would seriously deny a black person an earned honor,” we think. > > You might also consider how people are educated about discrimination. As a white person, discrimination was always a very abstract idea, something that happened in the past or the South but not really relevant. Certainly not something I ever looked out for. Black friends have pointed out to me that their experience was different—not only have they experienced discrimination in California, where I was taught that there wasn’t any, they had a large network of informal education in the subject from friends and family. > > To take one example, a friend was told not to study German in high school because she was black. I had a similar reaction to the idiocy **Rand Rover** demonstrates in this thread—I simply couldn’t believe that was racism, but kept grasping at straws to find another explanation. Looking back, it was obviously racism, I just had a strong emotional investment in the belief that my world wasn’t like that. See above- I used to live in the country, and you won’t realize how much racism there is, 'specially if there isn’t variation around to trigger the discussion… > [@Ludovic](#): > > I wish _I_ had a pervasive beaver problem. Just sayin’. Spot on, lad! > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Your obvious mistake was to expect logical and decent behavior from school administration. > > The odds of that are almost as low as a school board doing the right thing. Beind directly involved with the school board which somehow managed to get behind ‘Ebonics’, I had to respond… It is amazing how the conglomeration of little issues get you to a point where the absurd seems normal… Ain’t them school boards wacky?! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/96 "2011-07-29T01:27:47Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > There are have been previous lawsuits very similar to this one that been successful, according to [this](http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/politics-raising-children/2011/jul/26/black-arkansas-student-validictorian-white/) article. > > Please note that Walker is Wimberly’s lawyer in this case. The suit being made on her behalf includes an allegation that black students at Wimberly’s school were discouraged from taking AP classes in a manner that was discriminatory, thereby allowing whites to have an unfair academic advantage over them. OK, ignorance fought, and, if not defeated, at least driven into retreat. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/97 "2011-07-29T13:08:08Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > They’re not _giving_ her anything. Highest GPA=Valedictorian. This is not something that they’re within their rights to deny her. Perhaps, in this case. In theory, I see no problem with a school instituting standards for naming a valedictorian in addition to having a high G.P.A. One might argue whether “not getting pregnant in high school” is an appropriate such standard, but I don’t see it as a matter of right or discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/98 "2011-07-29T13:38:24Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Fact #1: A student was recognized as valedictorian, and then secondarily told she would be co-valedictorian. > Fact #2: Her co-valedictorian has a different GPA and is white. > Fact #3: There is a historic imbalance of power between blacks and whites. > Fact #4: There is some tension in this part of the world between blacks and whites. > > Now, I grant there could easily be a scenario that takes all these facts into account but where racism is not the deciding factor. To date, though, no alternative theory is very strong. It could be sexism, pure incompetence, or any combination of the above. I just think that the facts point to racism first and other theories second, barring further evidence. > > (For instance, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ms. Wimberly was in fact #2 and, rather than apologize for the error and explain the calculations, this was a ham-handed way to make everyone happy. But I still suspect that the awareness of black girl vs. white boy was a factor.) Those facts are not fur and teeth marks–ie, direct evidence of racism. Also we have several alternative theories. Here they are in order of plausibility (grom greatest to least): 1. Two students had a reasonable claim to the top spot, and the school awarded it to both of them. (Unfortunately, the white student’s claim came only after the black student was told she had the highest grades, thus making some people believe the school had a problem with the val’s race.) 2. The school didn’t want the sole val to be a teen mother. 3. The school didn’t want the sole val to be a school staff member’s kid. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/99 "2011-07-29T14:09:38Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Those facts are not fur and teeth marks–ie, direct evidence of racism. > > Also we have several alternative theories. Here they are in order of plausibility (grom greatest to least): > > 1. Two students had a reasonable claim to the top spot, and the school awarded it to both of them. (Unfortunately, the white student’s claim came only after the black student was told she had the highest grades, thus making some people believe the school had a problem with the val’s race.) > > 2. The school didn’t want the sole val to be a teen mother. > > 3. The school didn’t want the sole val to be a school staff member’s kid. Yes, these are possibilities, but racism is the more likely culprit. Not sure how you don’t see that. Have you been to AK? It’s not exactly a progressive place. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562/100 "2011-07-29T14:43:52Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Have you been to AK? It’s not exactly a progressive place. Pointless nitpick department: Arkansas is AR; AK is Alaska. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-a-news-of-weird-racism-version/590562.md?page=6)