# "We need conservatives" why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524 "2010-07-29T23:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/201 "2010-08-02T02:54:00Z")
I am, I guess, considered liberal by many people here. Or undecided, Or “who the hell knows” by a few. But, I agree with Stan Shmenge and Sam Stone here. Neither liberal NOR conservative has to be the far fringe extremist kind. We can all believe in a system where the weak are protected from abuse by the strong, but also where the strong are not punished for being strong. A system where there are safety nets, but without government interference where it doesn’t belong. A system that provides freedom to believe or not believe as one chooses ## Etc etc etc. We can and often do disagree on the best way to do things, but we USUALLY do have “good motives”. I already said I don’t need some self appointed tough guy “protecting” me from ghosties and ghoulies and things that go bump in the night. I also don’t need anyone flinging names around because I don’t happen to think as some “tough guy” thinks I should be made to think or say. That sort of thing is exactly what we should be “protecting” against. You’ll protect me if I do/act/say/think what you tell me is allowed? I don’t think so. I prefer to protect myself - against people like you phony patriots and make believe heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/202 "2010-08-02T03:02:37Z")
Maybe I’m just having a bad day. But I’m not just talking about the idiotic death wishes. Frankly, too many of the users of this board come across as hateful, prejudiced ideologues who reflexively defend the talking points of their leaders while simultaneously patting themselves on the back for being tolerant, original thinkers. It’s starting to really get under my skin, and it’s ridiculous to let anonymous strangers on a message board ruin your day. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/203 "2010-08-02T03:22:03Z")
Maybe so Sam, but methinks this is the wrong thread to make that point. Most of the activity in this thread involves lefties denouncing **The Facts**. I think there’s a total of 1 poster upthread who agrees with the guy. Separately, I think lefties can pat themselves on the back for curbing the wackos in their midst. Just as righties should receive props in the bullrun pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/204 "2010-08-02T03:38:45Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > Is rent expensive in cliche world? > > Umm, I’m probably more liberal than you are, big guy. Excuse me for using cliches, but give me a break if you think a single party ruling forever would not have catastrophic corruption problems. > > I think the current mainstream conservatives (GOP leadership) are childish, vacuous, soulless cretins, but that does not mean my side is always correct on every issue. Christ, the partisanship on this board is astounding. I wish you were, but it has been a long time since someone claimed to be more liberal than I . One problem is the conservatives vote against their own interests. They are convinced the party that gives us huge deficits every time they get in ,is fiscally conservative, while being the opposite. They are convinced the Dems want their guns. How stupid is that? But they just keep gobbling up lies and spouting them out in Palinesque fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/205 "2010-08-02T04:25:50Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > > > We conservatives need to take back the Republican party from the creeps, and you liberals need to take back the Democratic party from the nuts. Then maybe we can make some of this progress you keep bleating about. > > Liberals did that in the 1980s and early 1990s, culminating with Clinton’s “Sister Solljah” moment. Generally speaking, liberal policy initiatives are backed by solid data and scientific investigation. It’s the conservatives who quote climate and supply-side cranks. Liberal cranks have been thoroughly marginalized – seriously, they only pay attention to them on Fox News. > > Put another way, in South Korea or Germany my politics would be right of center. But in the US, I’m at the extreme left wing of the political spectrum. The leftist equivalent of the current rabid right would likely be many communists and anarchists. I have known a few and many are as rabid, ideological, unpragmatic and emotional as the right’s extremists. But the communists are extremely marginalized within the democratic party. Even the progressive wing (seen as the ‘far left’ of the dems) is to the right of the communists. Very few people in the democratic party call for a fully centrally planned economy, collective farms, proletariat dictatorships, etc. On the other hand the extremist wing of the GOP controls their party, or at the very least are influential enough to not be shouted down. Its not the same thing. The overton window has moved too far to the right. As a WAG I’d say communism – progressives/liberals – DLC/conservadems – new england republicans – Southern Republicans – Authoritarians/fascists is a general left–right progression. However several people on the right running for political office have called for violence if they don’t win the next election. That puts them in fascist territory. There is no equivalent of Steve King or Sherron Angle on the left in congress. There are almost no calls for communism from the left. Progressivism, yes, but not communism. The overton window needs to be adjusted. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/206 "2010-08-02T04:40:47Z")
I don’t see any calls to violence worth taking seriously enough to condemn it. Mostly, they’re talking about more chubby, middle-aged guys putting on cammys and toting hunting rifles around in groups, posturing and chin-jutting. To the dismay of Islamic terrorists and the grateful approval of their wives. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/207 "2010-08-02T07:57:05Z")
**Wesley Clark** : Certain modern conservative arguments also have their echoes in Marxist and post-modernist rhetoric. Expert advice can be shunted aside because its just a manifestation of [del]class bias[/del] liberalism: after all, everything is political and facts are really the other side’s argument dressed up a certain way. So there’s no reason to investigate the matter: it’s all ideology anyway. [Props: Josh Marshall](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.marshall.html). Similarly, [Starve the Beast](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast) has its echos in the Marxists desire to speed up the inevitable final crisis of capitalism – since what would come after the great crisis will be so much better. > [@elucidator](#): > > I don’t see any calls to violence worth taking seriously enough to condemn it. Mostly, they’re talking about more chubby, middle-aged guys putting on cammys and toting hunting rifles around in groups, posturing and chin-jutting. To the dismay of Islamic terrorists and the grateful approval of their wives. Today’s NYT Magazine had an article on these [suburban warriors](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/magazine/01Appleseed-t.html?ref=magazine&pagewanted=all). My favorite quote: > [@NYT Magazine](#): > > “When I hold a rifle in my hands, I can feel the choice that I’m making,” one Appleseeder, a computer programmer from Southern California, told me. “I know what I can do with this gun, but I also know I’m not going to do that. I have become death. When you have that power and that choice, you know what choice you’re going to make. When someone can be death over a quarter mile, that’s a tremendous responsibility.” Yes, not being a sniper at a sports stadium or a sociopath is a tremendous responsibility. OTOH, there are a few disturbing [straws in the wind](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_07/024825.php): > [@Steve Benen](#): > > ``` > Williams, an anti-government zealot on parole for bank robbery, had hoped to "start a revolution" with the bloodshed at the ACLU and the Tides Foundation in San Francisco, authorities said. ... > > ``` > > These examples of politically-motivated attacks seem to keep piling up. Just this year, John Patrick Bedell opened fire at the Pentagon; Joe Stack flew an airplane into a building; Jerry Kane Jr. and his son killed two police officers in Arkansas; and the Hutaree Militia terrorist plot was uncovered. Last year, James von Brunn opened fire at the Holocaust memorial museum; Richard Poplawski gunned down three police officers in Pittsburgh, in part because he feared the non-existent “Obama gun ban”; and Dr. George Tiller was assassinated. In 2008, Jim David Adkisson opened fire in a Unitarian church in Tennessee, in part because of his “hatred of the liberal movement.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/208 "2010-08-02T14:33:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > > > Whatever you think of things like religion and guns, do you really want them legislated right out of the common life? What kind of society would that make us? > > I guess that depends. What does mainstream religion offer that tarot reading (for example) doesn’t? > **[Catholic Charities USA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charities)** > > Catholic Charities USA is the national voluntary membership organization for Catholic Charities agencies throughout the United States and its territories. Catholic Charities USA is a member of Caritas Internationalis, an international federation of Catholic social service organizations. Catholic Charities USA is the national office of 167 local Catholic Charities agencies nationwide. > Founded in 1910 as the National Conference of Catholic Charities (NCCC), the organization changed its name in 1... ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/209 "2010-08-02T14:54:45Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Today’s NYT Magazine had an article on these [suburban warriors](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/magazine/01Appleseed-t.html?ref=magazine&pagewanted=all). My favorite quote: Yes, not being a sniper at a sports stadium or a sociopath is a tremendous responsibility. I’m half inclined to sign up for these shooting lessons and say that my reasons for wanting to better handle a rifle are twofold: 1. To be ready in case of Zombie attack (and I mean literal Zombies, not whackadoodle code for urban liberals like myself); 2. To be ready to defend constitutional government against domestic enemies who value the gun more than the ballot. In the name of liberty, how could they refuse to train me? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/210 "2010-08-02T14:59:06Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > Do you have any idea who has run up almost all of our debt? Republicans. > > LBJ was the first one who threw a war without asking anyone to pay for it through any type of sacrifice. That is true about LBJ and the Vietnam war, I don’t remember the conservatives crying out for tax increases to pay for the watr but maybe they did and i just have selective memory, I DO remember them supporting the war generally. Now add up all the deficits from the Bush reagan and Bush administrations, compound it to current value and you end up with a number that is very close to or national debt. > [@](#): > > Neither party has ever cut spending, and both play games with taxes. Ever hear of the peace dividend? > [@](#): > > With all that - having liberals is also critical. You need liberals to keep some business regulations in place while you also need conservatives to let people use their private property as they see fit. The two sides work well together. I think we need conservatives too. I was responding to the bullshit implication that our economic situation is somehow the fault of the liberals when almost then entire national debt is attributable to Republican deficits and the current recession is arguably the result of conservative laissez faire policies (some of which came from the Clinton white house). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/211 "2010-08-02T15:07:17Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > > [@YogSosoth](#): > > > > As opposed to conservatives, who proudly recount the days when their man ran for president on a segregationist’s platform and openly consider brown people to be invaders > > Yeah, that Lincoln was a nasty guy, wasn’t he? Yep, Democrats never got over that one. I mean, this is the group of Lefties who mourn the passing of a certain Democratic Senator from The Klan, while covering and making up all kinds of nonsense to cover for it. How many times do we have to hear conservatives pretend that the racism of the dixiecrats are to be attributed to the liberals and Lincols is supposed to be attributed to the conservatives? Hey smiling bandit, you see how the post you respond to uses the terms conservative/liberal and you convert them into Republicans (of 125 years ago) and the Democrats (before the Southern strategy converted Dixiecrats into Republicans). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/212 "2010-08-02T15:20:58Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Even Barry Goldwater, who was once considered too conservative and radical to deserve to run the country in 1964, was disgusted by the conservatives of the 1990s and how radical/backwards/authoritarian they are. The sad part is that the conservatives of the 1990s are moderate compared to the Palin and Beck breed that exist now. Yeah, Goldwater Republicans were fine, what we have today bears no similarity to them and noone who want to return to those sort of principles want to give up control for the time that it wold take to build that sort of aprty. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/213 "2010-08-02T15:22:42Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > You forget that candy assed liberals don’t believe in things that go bump in the night. > > “bump in the night” = Sieg Heil, Banzai!, Viva La Revolucion!, Allah Akbar, or anybody else that needs killing. We’re the big nasty dogs that sleep on the porch and guard the house against all intruders. You don’t like us, to some extent you fear us, you will never understand us, but you will always need us. A society with no warriors won’t be a free society for very long. That’s like the second time you channeled Jack Nicholson from a few good men. Yeah we need our military, we don’t need as much of it as we have and we certainly shouldn’t let our appreciation of the military make us subservient to it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/214 "2010-08-02T15:33:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > > Today’s NYT Magazine had an article on these [suburban warriors](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/magazine/01Appleseed-t.html?ref=magazine&pagewanted=all). My favorite quote: Yes, not being a sniper at a sports stadium or a sociopath is a tremendous responsibility. > > I’m half inclined to sign up for these shooting lessons and say that my reasons for wanting to better handle a rifle are twofold: > > 1. To be ready in case of Zombie attack (and I mean literal Zombies, not whackadoodle code for urban liberals like myself); > 2. To be ready to defend constitutional government against domestic enemies who value the gun more than the ballot. > > In the name of liberty, how could they refuse to train me? I’ve been wondering about that, too. “Look here, gun nuts: I need you to teach me how to shoot so I can defend myself from you.” ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/215 "2010-08-02T15:45:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > > > Even Barry Goldwater, who was once considered too conservative and radical to deserve to run the country in 1964, was disgusted by the conservatives of the 1990s and how radical/backwards/authoritarian they are. The sad part is that the conservatives of the 1990s are moderate compared to the Palin and Beck breed that exist now. > > Yeah, Goldwater Republicans were fine, what we have today bears no similarity to them and noone who want to return to those sort of principles want to give up control for the time that it wold take to build that sort of aprty. If so, you have only yourselves to blame, because it the was the Left’s outrageous, Libellous douchebaggery which destroyed Goldwater and his party. The Left destroyed the Right, and we are now reborn to return the favor. And we will forever dedicated ourselves to crushing and annihilating you and your entire ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/216 "2010-08-02T15:46:11Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > I am sorry to say that many folks these days who label themselves conservatives are merely shills for the plutocrats who exploit the fears of the bigots and the zealots to wangle their way into positions of power, but rest assured that there are many among us, those who consider ourselves true conservatives that look at these people with alarm and disgust. As [one conservative](http://www.jerrypournelle.com)has been calling them, “the creeps”. That is, to distinguish them from the people on the left, “the nuts”. Then why don’t you guys clean house instead of shrugging your shoulders. Leave! Start a new party. Throw your weight behind the libertarians (I am now hopeful that a more mainstream libertarian movement will not be totally batshit crazy). Is it really better to part of a winning party that doesn’t focus on any of the conservative values you talk about or is it better to rebuild your party and compromise with a Democratic party that is frankly closer to where you wanted to be to begin with than the Bachmans and Becks of the world. > [@](#): > > I am a conservative that is not a bigot…I am an athiest, who supports freedom of religion… I support a woman’s right to an abortion… I support severely punishing criminals, but am a huge critic of police (as many on this board will attest…I oppose government subsidy of corporations and corporate farmers. I support the progressive income tax, as did Marx… I believe we do owe some help to those members of society who are in trouble…I think that sick people should be cared for even if they cannot pay… I think the government should keep it’s nose out of people’s bedrooms, and mind their own business about what sorts of substances they put into their bodies. …I think that gays should have the same government sanction to marry that straights should have… > I think the department of defense should be just that. I think we should be armed to the teeth, but that all of our soldiers should be right here on our own soil, for the sole purpose of defending it, should the need arise…I think the government spends way to goddamn much money and spends it, by and large, wastefully What the hell do you have in common with these people other than your misplaced outrage at government spending? > [@](#): > > All levels of government are guilty, from the very top to the local level. Google “Bell California” for all kinds of news about a rotten to the core government in a small town here in Southern California. Read about the city manager who was making almost $800,000 a year, and will now retire after ten years of service and collect an estimated six million dollars in retirement. Read about the cops and prison guards here in California, who’s retirement is based on what they earn in their last year of service, who proceed to rack up incredible amounts of overtime in that final year and retire on quarter million dollar a year pensions. The public sector is sucking us dry, and how are they getting away with it? Your friends, the Democrats, those noble guardians of the public trust and the general welfare, ALLOW it to happen, because they are on the public employee union gravy train. > > We need to restore the idea of public service, where public employment was a secure career with modest rewards, rather than what it has become, a gold encrusted gravy train. Do you think Nancy Pelosi is going to be spearheading that? Unfortunately, I don’t see any Republicans lining up to take on the challenge either. Point to ONE example of that in the federal work force. EVERY SINGLE example of this sort of outrage that anyone has come up with since I joined this board has occured at the lcoal level and yet conservatives think we should put concentrate more power at the local level. > [@](#): > > We conservatives need to take back the Republican party from the creeps, and you liberals need to take back the Democratic party from the nuts. Then maybe we can make some of this progress you keep bleating about. Partially true. The republican aprty has gone off the raisl but I don’t see where the Democrats have. The only thing you have really pointed to is he4alth care reform but if you can remember back to 2008, health care reform was VERY much talked about during the campaign, the Democrats didn’t sandbag the country with health care reform, it was at the top of the agenda and and enjoyed broad support, heck it enjoys broad support today. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/217 "2010-08-02T15:47:13Z")
So what you’re saying is we drove you insane? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/218 "2010-08-02T15:49:40Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > **Wesley Clark** : Certain modern conservative arguments also have their echoes in Marxist and post-modernist rhetoric. So is Grover Norquist a marxist or a tool of the marxists. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/219 "2010-08-02T15:54:31Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > Yeah, Goldwater Republicans were fine, what we have today bears no similarity to them and noone who want to return to those sort of principles want to give up control for the time that it wold take to build that sort of aprty. > > If so, you have only yourselves to blame, because it the was the Left’s outrageous, Libellous douchebaggery which destroyed Goldwater and his party. The Left destroyed the Right, and we are now reborn to return the favor. And we will forever dedicated ourselves to crushing and annihilating you and your entire ideology. Not I. I was a Republican until about 2003. I started drifting left (or perhaps the ground was moving under me) in the 1990’s. When the Republicans impeached Clinton, I said WTF? I chuckled when we elected Bush then he passed unpaid for tax cuts and i stopped chuckling. Then he invaded Iraq and I registered Democrat. The conservative movement these days are ideologists first and Americans second. And util that changes, I will never be a conservative again. I will lock arms with the idiots that want to save the spotted owl before I lock arms with the idiots that want to destroy the country just so they can blame it on the idiots that want to save spooted owls. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/220 "2010-08-02T16:11:49Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I wish you were, but it has been a long time since someone claimed to be more liberal than I . > One problem is the conservatives vote against their own interests. They are convinced the party that gives us huge deficits every time they get in ,is fiscally conservative, while being the opposite. They are convinced the Dems want their guns. How stupid is that? But they just keep gobbling up lies and spouting them out in Palinesque fashion. Yeah, I regret saying that. I was pissed when I thought liberals would support the jerkoff OP, but it appears it is alone on sanctimonious isle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=12)