# "We need conservatives" why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524 "2010-07-29T23:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/41 "2010-07-30T01:13:50Z")
OK, I’ll bite. Conservatives are right on Affirmative Action and Liberals are wrong. Each person should be treated as an individual, equal before the law. No preferential treatment by the law for anyone. Per the OP… Don’t sell me shit like “some people have a principled stand for discriminating against people based on race” or some theoretical shit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/42 "2010-07-30T01:13:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > > Because not every liberal idea is always correct and absolute power corrupts absolutely. > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > Market economies? No. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/43 "2010-07-30T01:15:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > Duh. “Hating” evil is good hate. Do you not hate Nazis? I do. > > Sure I do. However, last I checked, most conservatives weren’t flying swastikas. Look under that Mr. Rogers sweater… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/44 "2010-07-30T01:15:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Conservatives are right on Affirmative Action and Liberals are wrong. Each person should be treated as an individual, equal before the law. No preferential treatment by the law for anyone. Good luck with that one. > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > > > > Because not every liberal idea is always correct and absolute power corrupts absolutely. > > > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > > > Market economies? > > No. Oh, well then, you’re absolutely right! Thank you for showing me the error of my ways. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/45 "2010-07-30T01:16:03Z")
I, for one, feel that my posts show I have given the OP’s topic all of the thoughtful consideration it deserves. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/46 "2010-07-30T01:16:34Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > BTW … I note we still have no arguments in response to the question. No answers? > > Respond to what essentially is a rant and not a sincere call for debate? What’s the point? You have made it perfectly clear that your mind is closed on this subject. Enjoy your thread. My mind is open. Give me an argument. What is the value of conservatives? What do they bring? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/47 "2010-07-30T01:17:53Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Bullshit. Progressives are the ones who believe in PROGRESS. See, it’s right there in the name. If it were up to conservatives we’d all still be living in caves eating mammoth. Progressives are the ones trying to lift humanity out of the cesspit of hate and superstition into a more evolved state. Progressives are the ones still fighting in Afghanistan. Still holding prisoners in Gitmo. You have to separate the bullshit of politics from the philosophies. There’s nothing evil about conservatives being concerned about our growing deficit and other conservative concerns. One of the brilliant aspects of our founding fathers vision is to establish a representative government of checks and balances that allows good people to find solutions and direction together providing a balance through compromise. We need conservatives for balance in the exchange of ideas and the quest for solutions. The problem now is that the business of politics and the games of perception involved dominate our government. Too many politicians on both sides of the aisle are bought and paid for by interests other than those of the people they are supposed to represent. What we need are more elected officials who have integrity. What we need are more citizens who are not sucked into the media BS. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/48 "2010-07-30T01:18:14Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. Eugenics [QUOTE=The Facts] Progressives are the ones trying to lift humanityu out of the cesspit of hate and superstition into a more evolved state. [/QUOTE] I guess you are a bit behind the times in that regard, though. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/49 "2010-07-30T01:19:14Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > > Because not every liberal idea is always correct and absolute power corrupts absolutely. > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > Not overextending America’s financial obligations. While I do not think we are at a level of great worry (and advocate for more stimulus spending), there is a limit to what a nation can spend before it runs into major problems. While I think the GOP yells about the deficit mainly for political reasons, they are correct that there is a limit. And this limit is probably lower than what most liberals think. No conservatives=sensible tax policies on the rich=no debt. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/50 "2010-07-30T01:20:21Z")
In general, it never hurts a person to have their beliefs and/or their way of thinking challenged. It should lead to better thinking and to a better understanding of their beliefs. It should also lead to a better understanding of their opponents beliefs and ways of thinking, which can only help the goal of [del]crushing their enemies, seeing them fall at their feet – taking their horses and goods and hearing the lamentation of their women [/del] _\ sorry_ defeating them in the market of political debate. I’m shy of attempting to apply this axiom to “conservative” and “liberal”. It’s far more general than that. It would behoove all politically active humans to remember that their political opponents are also–almost always–supporting what they honestly believe to be best. Demonizing such an opponent is dehumanizing them, “They are not part of the _real_ people,” and, as such, is counter-productive, malicious, and ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/51 "2010-07-30T01:22:03Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > Bullshit. Progressives are the ones who believe in PROGRESS. See, it’s right there in the name. If it were up to conservatives we’d all still be living in caves eating mammoth. Progressives are the ones trying to lift humanity out of the cesspit of hate and superstition into a more evolved state. > > Progressives are the ones still fighting in Afghanistan. Still holding prisoners in Gitmo. Uh, no. Delays in cleaning up the massive shitfuck that was the Bush regime don’t count as progressive policies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/52 "2010-07-30T01:23:34Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > Eugenics Wait, what? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/53 "2010-07-30T01:24:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, I’ll bite. > > Conservatives are right on Affirmative Action and Liberals are wrong. Each person should be treated as an individual, equal before the law. No preferential treatment by the law for anyone. > > Per the OP… Don’t sell me shit like “some people have a principled stand for discriminating against people based on race” or some theoretical shit. I just love the way conservatives fought for equality before AA. Rather than blame liberals blame the companies that discriminated for decades and then panicked and overcompensated in their scramble to avoid lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/54 "2010-07-30T01:24:46Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > My mind is open. Give me an argument. What is the value of conservatives? What do they bring? I already told you that. Without guys like me, guys like you would be working in the salt mines of the new overlord. Ya see, the world is not now, never has been, and ain’t never gonna be some hippie paradise. TANSTAAFL always applies. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/55 "2010-07-30T01:26:51Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > > Bullshit. Progressives are the ones who believe in PROGRESS. See, it’s right there in the name. If it were up to conservatives we’d all still be living in caves eating mammoth. Progressives are the ones trying to lift humanity out of the cesspit of hate and superstition into a more evolved state. > > > > Progressives are the ones still fighting in Afghanistan. Still holding prisoners in Gitmo. > > Uh, no. Delays in cleaning up the massive shitfuck that was the Bush regime don’t count as progressive policies. Bush didn’t escalate Afghanistan. That was Obama’s policy and he was still defending it today. I voted for him and I’m still glad I did, but I completely disagree with his policy there. IMO his decisions there were either political, financial or both rather than about security. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/56 "2010-07-30T01:28:44Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > > Bullshit. Progressives are the ones who believe in PROGRESS. See, it’s right there in the name. If it were up to conservatives we’d all still be living in caves eating mammoth. Progressives are the ones trying to lift humanity out of the cesspit of hate and superstition into a more evolved state. > > > > Progressives are the ones still fighting in Afghanistan. Still holding prisoners in Gitmo. > > Uh, no. Delays in cleaning up the massive shitfuck that was the Bush regime don’t count as progressive policies. Afghanistan aside, holding people without trial isn’t a “delay”, whether or not you put them there. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/57 "2010-07-30T01:32:45Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I already told you that. Without guys like me, guys like you would be working in the salt mines of the new overlord. I’m uncertain where in this thread you’ve demonstrated that conservatives supported child labor laws, the 40 hour work week, and the OSHA, etc. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/58 "2010-07-30T01:33:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, I’ll bite. > > Conservatives are right on Affirmative Action and Liberals are wrong. Each person should be treated as an individual, equal before the law. No preferential treatment by the law for anyone. > > Per the OP… Don’t sell me shit like “some people have a principled stand for discriminating against people based on race” or some theoretical shit. I have no idea what this means. AA is anti-discrimination. It is about creating a level playing field. And that is a progressive idea. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/59 "2010-07-30T01:39:48Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > My mind is open. Give me an argument. What is the value of conservatives? What do they bring? What is your value? What do you bring, aside from hatred? You seem to be confusing labels with actions. I may very well think that at least some self-described conservatives (Rush Limbaugh) are a cancer on society, but that is because I am aware of specific actions by Mr. Limbaugh that make him an odious creep, not that his mere self-description as a conservative makes him so. No one actually _has_ to justify the existence of conservatives to you, you know. What difference does your opinion make, exactly? If what you want to do is merely preach hatred, have at it and we’ll see how things go. If what you want is to convince others that your hatred is justified, you’ll need to work a bit harder. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/60 "2010-07-30T01:41:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I already told you that. Without guys like me, guys like you would be working in the salt mines of the new overlord. Lawyers? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=4)