# "We need conservatives" why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524 "2010-07-29T23:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/61 "2010-07-30T01:42:14Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > I already told you that. Without guys like me, guys like you would be working in the salt mines of the new overlord. > > I’m uncertain where in this thread you’ve demonstrated that conservatives supported child labor laws, the 40 hour work week, and the OSHA, etc. I’m pretty sure it’s included in the post where I said John Wayne won WWII by single-handedly whipping Tojo’s ass. That only took him a few movies, so he did the other stuff in between times. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/62 "2010-07-30T01:47:04Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Bullshit. Progressives are the ones who believe in PROGRESS. See, it’s right there in the name. If it were up to conservatives we’d all still be living in caves eating mammoth. Progressives are the ones trying to lift humanityu out of the cesspit of hate and superstition into a more evolved state. And back in those caves, it was probably a common practice to bump off people who didn’t think the same as you. Pass the mammoth, please. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/63 "2010-07-30T01:48:37Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > I already told you that. Without guys like me, guys like you would be working in the salt mines of the new overlord. > > Lawyers? We prefer “Warriors of Freedom, Guardians of Democracy, Champions of Justice, and Otherwise Manly Men”. Or paid. Paid is always good. Highly paid would be nice. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/64 "2010-07-30T01:52:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’m pretty sure it’s included in the post where I said John Wayne won WWII by single-handedly whipping Tojo’s ass. That only took him a few movies, so he did the other stuff in between times. John Wayne? JOHN WAYNE? Well, OK. I’ll give you that one. Damnit. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/65 "2010-07-30T02:05:54Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > … I’m the activist. I’ve registered the disenfranchised, I’ve marched on washington, I’ve taken direct action. Ho hum. You appear to have a high opinion about the virtue of your behavior. FTR, I’ve done that crap as well. To answer the OP: progressives require an opposition party to keep them honest. Somebody has to investigate and go after Charlie Rangel, and it’s likely that the left would lack a certain… enthusiasm for the task. Those with a different POV can be helpful, especially if they are honest. That said, I think the national Republican party has left building and should be dismantled. Their budgetary views are exercises in fantasy and wishful thinking, their foreign policy cartoonish. It was not always thus: > [@Brad DeLong](#): > > To understand the Republican Party today, you have to recognize that right now it is bespelled by three curses: > [ul] > [li] The curse of Ronald Reagan: it believes that over the long haul somehow America can tax like Calvin Coolidge and spend like Lyndon Johnson and everything will come out fine because it is morning in America.[/li] [li] The curse of Richard Nixon: it believes that the purpose of politics is to win high-paid jobs with no heavy lifting involved and to humiliate your political adversaries, rather than to make a better country and a better world, and so anything goes.[/li] [li] The curse of Barry Goldwater: it believes that the big threat to liberty comes from government attempts to enhance equality of opportunity, and so the Republican Party must abandon its historic commitment to equality of opportunity.[/ul][/li] > The Republican Party may never again have a legitimate place in American civil life. But if it does, it will only be because brave men and women working within it lift these three curses. [http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/03/is-michael-steele-the-best-possible-chairman-for-the-republican-national-committee.html](http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/03/is-michael-steele-the-best-possible-chairman-for-the-republican-national-committee.html) Ironically, President Reagan raised taxes repeatedly as events warranted, Nixon valued competence in his administration and Goldwater wasn’t as far right as he appeared in 1964. The problem isn’t with those Republican leaders; the problem is with those modern conservatives who have adopted the worst aspects of their natures. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/66 "2010-07-30T02:16:15Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > Christ, the partisanship on this board is astounding. Actually, it is just tedious. Ill considered silliness such as the OP tends to bring out the worst on both sides, of course. I am not persuaded that the majority of posters are mindless partisans, but it is certainly true that there are enough loud partisans to keep this sort of thread on the front page of the forum for long periods of time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/67 "2010-07-30T02:33:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > Christ, the partisanship on this board is astounding. > > Actually, it is just tedious. > > Ill considered silliness such as the OP tends to bring out the worst on both sides, of course. I am not persuaded that the majority of posters are mindless partisans, but it is certainly true that there are enough loud partisans to keep this sort of thread on the front page of the forum for long periods of time. I am looking for an honest debate. Don’t blame me because nobody has an argument? What is the social value of conservatives? Are they Doctors? Teachers? Social workers? So far as I can see, they are none of these things. But they are trust fund inheritors, millionaires, TV preachers and other parasites … am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/68 "2010-07-30T02:47:04Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > What is the social value of conservatives? Are they Doctors? Teachers? Social workers? So far as I can see, they are none of these things. But they are trust fund inheritors, millionaires, TV preachers and other parasites … am I wrong? Yes you’re wrong. Conservatives can be found as Doctors, Teachers and Social workers just as you can find liberal trust fund inheritors, millionaires and TV preachers. Your looking to have a debate great but you seem only willing to have that debate with someone willing to take your stereotypes as facts. You are dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/69 "2010-07-30T02:47:53Z")
How about you go ask the PIIGS how they are doing with fiscal liberals running the show for the past few years. Maybe take a tour of the UK on your way back, then see how California and New York are doing before heading over to DC. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/70 "2010-07-30T02:48:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > > > You need us mean and nasty conservatives to protect all the candy assed liberals from things that go bump in the night. > > > > You forget that candy assed liberals don’t believe in things that go bump in the night. > > “bump in the night” = Sieg Heil, Banzai!, Viva La Revolucion!, Allah Akbar, or anybody else that needs killing. We’re the big nasty dogs that sleep on the porch and guard the house against all intruders. You don’t like us, to some extent you fear us, you will never understand us, but you will always need us. A society with no warriors won’t be a free society for very long. Sorry, no. I had a big long thing written, but fuck it. You’re not as bad and all that as you think, and if push comes to shove, I’ll do my own killing. Just stay the hell out of the way. I don’t need any damn protection. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/71 "2010-07-30T02:48:19Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > > Christ, the partisanship on this board is astounding. > > > > Actually, it is just tedious. > > > > Ill considered silliness such as the OP tends to bring out the worst on both sides, of course. I am not persuaded that the majority of posters are mindless partisans, but it is certainly true that there are enough loud partisans to keep this sort of thread on the front page of the forum for long periods of time. > > I am looking for an honest debate. Don’t blame me because nobody has an argument? > > What is the social value of conservatives? Are they Doctors? Teachers? Social workers? So far as I can see, they are none of these things. But they are trust fund inheritors, millionaires, TV preachers and other parasites … am I wrong? You are as wrong as anyone else who spouts such ignorant generalities. You’ve already been shown you are wrong and simply continue to spout nonsense instead of engaging in the honest debate you claim to want. There is rarely any honest debate involved in such foolishness. Simply useless partisan assertions. Show me I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/72 "2010-07-30T02:52:23Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > How about you go ask the PIIGS how they are doing with fiscal liberals running the show for the past few years. Maybe take a tour of the UK on your way back, then see how California and New York are doing before heading over to DC. California is a fucking mess. Everybody knows that. Tax tax tax tax and more tax, and the damn state is still going broker and broker and broker. Where the hell is all that money going? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/73 "2010-07-30T03:11:24Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > What is the social value of conservatives? Are they Doctors? Teachers? Social workers? So far as I can see, they are none of these things. But they are trust fund inheritors, millionaires, TV preachers and other parasites … am I wrong? > > Yes you’re wrong. Conservatives can be found as Doctors, Teachers and Social workers just as you can find liberal trust fund inheritors, millionaires and TV preachers. > > Your looking to have a debate great but you seem only willing to have that debate with someone willing to take your stereotypes as facts. You are dishonest. :rolleyes: We’re talking proportions. Yes, there are conservatives that have social value, but most do not. What socially useful group is disproprtionaltely conservative? What would we lose if they all choked to death on a pretzel tomorrow? Their net contribution is negative. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/74 "2010-07-30T03:15:08Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > > > > Christ, the partisanship on this board is astounding. > > > > > > Actually, it is just tedious. > > > > > > Ill considered silliness such as the OP tends to bring out the worst on both sides, of course. I am not persuaded that the majority of posters are mindless partisans, but it is certainly true that there are enough loud partisans to keep this sort of thread on the front page of the forum for long periods of time. > > > > I am looking for an honest debate. Don’t blame me because nobody has an argument? > > > > What is the social value of conservatives? Are they Doctors? Teachers? Social workers? So far as I can see, they are none of these things. But they are trust fund inheritors, millionaires, TV preachers and other parasites … am I wrong? > > You are as wrong as anyone else who spouts such ignorant generalities. You’ve already been shown you are wrong and simply continue to spout nonsense instead of engaging in the honest debate you claim to want. There is rarely any honest debate involved in such foolishness. Simply useless partisan assertions. > > Show me I’m wrong. Where? Where has someone shown me “if we lose conservatives, we will lose our \_\_\_\_\_\_\_”? Nobody. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/75 "2010-07-30T03:16:49Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Yes, there are conservatives that have social value,… It’s obvious that at this point in the debate, you need to define “social value”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/76 "2010-07-30T03:22:41Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > I am looking for an honest debate. Don’t blame me because nobody has an argument? > > What is the social value of conservatives? Are they Doctors? Teachers? Social workers? So far as I can see, they are none of these things. But they are trust fund inheritors, millionaires, TV preachers and other parasites … am I wrong? Nah. You are looking to make yourself feel good by creating a false image of people with whom you disagree so that you can claim that you have an intrinsic worth greater than theirs. I know many conservative doctors and teachers. I even know at least one conservative social worker, (although I will admit that that career has fewer conservatives). I also know a lot of line workers who are conservative, from whom you get a lot of your finished goods, and I probably know more farmers who are conservative than otherwise and I am willing to bet that you enjoy eating. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/77 "2010-07-30T03:24:02Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@boytyperanma](#): > > > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > > What is the social value of conservatives? Are they Doctors? Teachers? Social workers? So far as I can see, they are none of these things. But they are trust fund inheritors, millionaires, TV preachers and other parasites … am I wrong? > > > > Yes you’re wrong. Conservatives can be found as Doctors, Teachers and Social workers just as you can find liberal trust fund inheritors, millionaires and TV preachers. > > > > Your looking to have a debate great but you seem only willing to have that debate with someone willing to take your stereotypes as facts. You are dishonest. > > :rolleyes: > > We’re talking proportions. Yes, there are conservatives that have social value, but most do not. What socially useful group is disproprtionaltely conservative? What would we lose if they all choked to death on a pretzel tomorrow? Their net contribution is negative. How about business owners, including small business owners that which happen to provide a lot of crucial employment. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/78 "2010-07-30T03:25:42Z")
And you know what, quite frankly, I would include those who pay large amounts of tax in my definition of “social value”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/79 "2010-07-30T03:27:16Z")
OK. A page and a half into this thread and I still see no serious effort on the part of the OP to set forth anything more than broad brush partisan sniping. Off to the **BBQ Pit** , (where I would prefer that you put any similar nonsense in the future). “Serious debate”? Piffle. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/80 "2010-07-30T03:32:43Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Where? Where has someone shown me “if we lose conservatives, we will lose our \_\_\_\_\_\_\_”? Nobody. I mentioned Afghanistan and you made the false argument that it was a conservative issue, then abandoned the argument when I pointed out you were wrong. You’re making a ridiculously broad claim that conservatives don’t hold psoitions that we solcially value. It’s utter and obvious bullshit. Before you ask others to prove you wrong perhaps you could provide evidence that there is any merit at all to your position. It’s the general expectation of GDs [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=5)