# "We need conservatives" why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524 "2010-07-29T23:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/101 "2010-07-30T10:18:12Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > [Social welfare and universal healthcare](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Bismarck.27s_social_legislation). Not a conservative position. Not here in America at least, and once you bring in other countries that opens up the question of how you determine the word “conservative” even more. Especially since conservatives overseas are often “liberals” by American standards. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/102 "2010-07-30T10:30:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Fuji](#): > > > > [Social welfare and universal healthcare](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Bismarck.27s_social_legislation). > > Not a conservative position. Not here in America at least, and once you bring in other countries that opens up the question of how you determine the word “conservative” even more. Especially since conservatives overseas are often “liberals” by American standards. Hey, I answered his question factually. He asked for “one issue that conservatives have _ever_ been right about”. He didn’t qualify it by saying “one issue that self-identified American conservatives have ever been right about in the past 30 years.” A little historical and cultural perspective might help him (and you) with your monomaniacal obsessions. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/103 "2010-07-30T10:36:30Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > He asked for “one issue that conservatives have _ever_ been right about”. He didn’t qualify it by saying “one issue that self-identified American conservatives have ever been right about in the past 30 years.” On a mostly American board the American definition is probably what people mean. Changing the definition in mid conversation doesn’t mean you are right, it just means you are playing word games, or at least arguing past each other. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/104 "2010-07-30T11:54:54Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I don’t. I’ve personally found that many business owners including small business owners tend to prefer the conservative approach of fewer restrictions, taxes and hoops to jump through. OTOH, larger businesses actually tend to favor big government, for various reasons (larger businesses are more likely than small ones to benefit directly from government contracts; incumbent large businesses are more able to absorb regulatory overhead than up-and-coming competitions). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/105 "2010-07-30T12:08:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > OK. > > A page and a half into this thread and I still see no serious effort on the part of the OP to set forth anything more than broad brush partisan sniping. > > Off to the **BBQ Pit** , (where I would prefer that you put any similar nonsense in the future). > > “Serious debate”? Piffle.[/Moderating] :dubious::mad: I have asked a question. In almost two pages, almost nobody even tried to address it. Why not address yourself to the yahoos? Oh, I forgot … it’s easier to shit on me because “everybody knows” that every life is sacred, every view is equal, blah blah blah … ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/106 "2010-07-30T12:09:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > > That would work just as well if American politics were mainly liberals vs. socialists. > > Which of them represents traditional values? Neither, thank god. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/107 "2010-07-30T12:13:14Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > > Because not every liberal idea is always correct and absolute power corrupts absolutely. > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > [Social welfare and universal healthcare](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Bismarck.27s_social_legislation). I’m not going to read wikipedia for you. you’ll have to make an argument. ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/108 "2010-07-30T12:22:07Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. Low flow toilets. Back in the early 90s Congress mandated that toilets have a flush of no more than 1.6 gallons, or whatever, before really thinking it through. It took years of research by, well, toilet manufacturers to redesign the flow in a toilet to adequately dispose of waste on only one flush. The good intentions of conserving water were undermined by a rush to act without due diligence. I suppose you’re now going to say that’s trivial\*, but I say it’s a good example. We liberals can push good ideas too fast without a plan to deal with side-effects. A conservative voice can say, “How do we deal with this? And this? And this?” Now, if everyone was acting in good faith, we’d all look at the pros and cons, see what cons could be remedied relatively easily, and decide whether to move forward. Since we’re a bunch of monkeys flinging poo at each other, we just continue to fling poo. \*Or you’re going to point out that Republicans voted for it too, because everyone had to buy new toilets if they worked on their bathrooms, and businesses benefited. Those were the politicians. The conservatives I know personally hated it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/109 "2010-07-30T12:25:28Z")
> [@MN\_Maenad](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > Low flow toilets. Back in the early 90s Congress mandated that toilets have a flush of no more than 1.6 gallons, or whatever, before really thinking it through. It took years of research by, well, toilet manufacturers to redesign the flow in a toilet to adequately dispose of waste on only one flush. The good intentions of conserving water were undermined by a rush to act without due diligence. > > I suppose you’re now going to say that’s trivial\*, but I say it’s a good example. We liberals can push good ideas too fast without a plan to deal with side-effects. A conservative voice can say, “How do we deal with this? And this? And this?” Now, if everyone was acting in good faith, we’d all look at the pros and cons, see what cons could be remedied relatively easily, and decide whether to move forward. > > Since we’re a bunch of monkeys flinging poo at each other, we just continue to fling poo. > > \*Or you’re going to point out that Republicans voted for it too, because everyone had to buy new toilets if they worked on their bathrooms, and businesses benefited. Those were the politicians. The conservatives I know personally hated it. I don’t understand your point at all. Why are low-flow toilets a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/110 "2010-07-30T12:52:30Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > I don’t. I’ve personally found that many business owners including small business owners tend to prefer the conservative approach of fewer restrictions, taxes and hoops to jump through. > > OTOH, larger businesses actually tend to favor big government, for various reasons (larger businesses are more likely than small ones to benefit directly from government contracts; incumbent large businesses are more able to absorb regulatory overhead than up-and-coming competitions). I doubt they care whether the government is big or small as long as they have the influence they want for their purposes. The fact large businesses are better able to absorb overhead doesn’t mean they like it or want it. I don’t know many large coorperate types but I’ve known a lot of small businessmen and almost all of them were conservative when it came to finances. Rather than want to enslave the poor {not you, the knucklehead that started the thread} these people wanted to work hard and enjoy the rewards of thier honest labour. These are people who are self motivated and often view welfare as a lack of motivation or people living off the work of others. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/111 "2010-07-30T13:03:44Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > OK. > > > > A page and a half into this thread and I still see no serious effort on the part of the OP to set forth anything more than broad brush partisan sniping. > > > > Off to the **BBQ Pit** , (where I would prefer that you put any similar nonsense in the future). > > > > “Serious debate”? Piffle.[/Moderating] > > :dubious::mad: > > I have asked a question. In almost two pages, almost nobody even tried to address it. Why not address yourself to the yahoos? Oh, I forgot … it’s easier to shit on me because “everybody knows” that every life is sacred, every view is equal, blah blah blah … It’s funny here. You’re actually expected to present a reasoned argument with perhaps a little evidence to back it up rather than ridicluous generalities and assertions with no evidence and then challange everyone to disprove you. You had your chance to address arguments and demonstrated you weren’t really interested in that. Extremists like you, from any subject of discussion, have little to offer in the way of thoughtful debate. You still have an opportunity to show this thread deserved to be in GDs but I doubt you can. Am I wrong? Please demonstrate. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/112 "2010-07-30T13:04:46Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@Fuji](#): > > > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > > > > Because not every liberal idea is always correct and absolute power corrupts absolutely. > > > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > > > [Social welfare and universal healthcare](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Bismarck.27s_social_legislation). > > I’m not going to read wikipedia for you. you’ll have to make an argument. You first. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/113 "2010-07-30T13:06:00Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You need us mean and nasty conservatives to protect all the candy assed liberals from things that go bump in the night. Do you mean the conservatives who were scared into supporting the invasion of Iraq by Bush’s garbage? Do you mean the conservatives who are too scared to imprison terrorists in their own prisons or the conservatives scared into condoning torture? While it’s true that meanness and nastiness are cornerstones of the current Conservative movement, so is cowardice. I don’t know why you’d describe liberals as ‘candy assed’ when it’s the right that lives in constant fear. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/114 "2010-07-30T13:20:59Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > How about you go ask the PIIGS how they are doing with fiscal liberals running the show for the past few years. Maybe take a tour of the UK on your way back, then see how California and New York are doing before heading over to DC. Ah, another “open mouth, insert foot” post from you about foreign governments. The UK hasn’t elected a fiscally liberal government since James Callaghan lost the 1979 election, so blaming its economic woes on fiscal liberals is pretty sad. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/115 "2010-07-30T13:32:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by \*\*Oakminster \*\* > You need us mean and nasty conservatives to protect all the candy assed liberals from things that go bump in the night. like repressed homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/116 "2010-07-30T13:40:19Z")
The OP is such an idiot they can’t even separate Conservatives from Republicans. I’m a Conservative. Tell me what it is about my personal Conservative philosophy which is objectionable to you. In detail. Or will this devolve into the typical “no true Scotsman” fallacy used so often on the SDMB? I can hear the bagpipes already, I fear. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/117 "2010-07-30T13:41:49Z")
Did you read the rest of the thread? Most of it is liberals calling out the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/118 "2010-07-30T14:26:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Fuji](#): > > > > He asked for “one issue that conservatives have _ever_ been right about”. He didn’t qualify it by saying “one issue that self-identified American conservatives have ever been right about in the past 30 years.” > > On a mostly American board the American definition is probably what people mean. Changing the definition in mid conversation doesn’t mean you are right, it just means you are playing word games, or at least arguing past each other. I really don’t give a flying fuck what “the American definition” of a conservative is. Not that I’d trust your definiton, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/119 "2010-07-30T14:30:36Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@Fuji](#): > > > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > > > > > Because not every liberal idea is always correct and absolute power corrupts absolutely. > > > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > > > [Social welfare and universal healthcare](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Bismarck.27s_social_legislation). > > I’m not going to read wikipedia for you. you’ll have to make an argument. Bismarck = a conservative Bismarck = strongly supported passage of social welfare and universal healthcare social welfare and universal healthcare = good thing Ergo, a conservative was right about something. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/120 "2010-07-30T14:44:21Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > > How do you know they’re disproportionately conservative? > > > > Business has no interest in any political system as such. > > I don’t. I’ve personally found that many business owners including small business owners tend to prefer the conservative approach of fewer restrictions, taxes and hoops to jump through. They tend to be more conservative financially. That;s not to say these same people can’t hold more progressive views on social issues. > > Would you say business owners tend to be more Conservative financially? I think if I were a business owner – in any business other than health insurance – I would be all for universal single-payer health care, fuck the deficit, just get this whole worry off **my** back and my employees’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=7)