# "We need conservatives" why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524 "2010-07-29T23:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/121 "2010-07-30T15:11:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I think if I were a business owner – in any business other than health insurance – I would be all for universal single-payer health care, fuck the deficit, just get this whole worry off **my** back and my employees’. You sound like my dad. Who IS a business owner. And a conservative. In answer to the OP? I’m a goddamn good conservative. I vote based primarily on fiscal conservatism and social freedom, which means I help elect a lot of Democrats–which is fine, because “democrat=liberal, republican=conservative” has never been strictly true in my memory. I support gun rights, abortion rights, gay marriage rights, lowering the burdens on workers by promoting universal health care and a smaller military, etc. I’m a patriot who wants to close Guantanamo as a prison because it’s 100% antithetical to our nation’s values. OP, you are going to find that there are a lot of guys like me out there who voted for Obama and want a lot of the same things you want. Provided jackasses like you and Limbaugh don’t keep feeding the goddamn flames with petty partisan bullshit, we might actually get back to the business of governing this damn country instead of slinging increasingly asinine policies and mud. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/122 "2010-07-30T15:25:20Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > I don’t understand your point at all. Why are low-flow toilets a bad thing? Because they don’t really work, and cause people to have to flush twice (thus increasing rather than decreasing water usage). > [@cosmosdan](#): > > I doubt they care whether the government is big or small as long as they have the influence they want for their purposes. The fact large businesses are better able to absorb overhead doesn’t mean they like it or want it. What they like is the fact that it kills off their potential competitors in much the same way chemotherapy kills off cancer (all cells get a bit sick, but the more susceptible ones die outright). ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/123 "2010-07-30T15:28:19Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > I have asked a question. In almost two pages, almost nobody even tried to address it. Why not address yourself to the yahoos? Oh, I forgot … it’s easier to shit on me because “everybody knows” that every life is sacred, every view is equal, blah blah blah … No, you posted a trolling thread to piss off the handful of conservatives that still hang out around here. Probably because you’re a useless piece of shit with nothing better to do. And you’re also probably a sock puppet of that jackass that posted the thread about how all religious people should be killed. Kindly go attempt an anatomically improbable act of auto-reproduction. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/124 "2010-07-30T15:29:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I think if I were a business owner – in any business other than health insurance – I would be all for universal single-payer health care, fuck the deficit, just get this whole worry off **my** back and my employees’. You didn’t answer my question. I know the small mid TN company I worked for paid a lot in insurance for it’s full timers. I’m sure they’d be relieved to not have that overhead but as individuals they might feel universal health care would be too expensive overall. It all depends on how it was structured. Would UHC be an additional tax taken only from the employees wages or would the employer also be kicking in some. That would probably mean the employer would pay some in on part timers as well, which they don’t do now. That would still be fine if the overall payment was less than they currently play. I’d hope that UHC would encourage more employers to have full time employees rather than hiring part timers to avoid paying benefits. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/125 "2010-07-30T15:37:44Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > What they like is the fact that it kills off their potential competitors in much the same way chemotherapy kills off cancer (all cells get a bit sick, but the more susceptible ones die outright). That does seem to be what is happening with the economic crisis. A lot of small banks closed so the giants could gobble up thier business. Then again , your average conservative wouldn’t support the bailouts. OTOH, while large companies might enjoy restrictions driving the smaller competition out I think they’d still rather not have them in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/126 "2010-07-30T15:44:09Z")
“No conservatives” = Chicago and Cook County politics. We need conservatives (send some if you can spare them). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/127 "2010-07-30T16:06:54Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > If every conservative disappeared tomorrow, in a puff of smoke, why wouldn’t that be a good thing? > > (Yes, I know some people would be sad for their family or whatever … I’m asking about society as a whole.) Serious debate only. Because some conservatives are single issue conservatives who are only conservative because of the abortion issue. These people frequently provide much of the charitable activity in the counry and the world. If Mother Theresa were alive today I bet she would be vote conservative based purely on the abortion issue. I most of the good government conservatives have been driven out of the republican party and been replaced by Grover Norquist acolytes. The racists are still there. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/128 "2010-07-30T16:07:54Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > In answer to the OP? I’m a goddamn good conservative. I vote based primarily on fiscal conservatism and social freedom, which means I help elect a lot of Democrats–which is fine, because “democrat=liberal, republican=conservative” has never been strictly true in my memory. I support gun rights, abortion rights, gay marriage rights, lowering the burdens on workers by promoting universal health care and a smaller military, etc. I’m a patriot who wants to close Guantanamo as a prison because it’s 100% antithetical to our nation’s values. None of that sounds conservative at all, except arguably gun rights. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/129 "2010-07-30T16:12:10Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > (And nutjobs like McCain who change their mind on the evils of immigrants every election cycle.) 😉 To be fair, he is trying to survive in a party that has veered so far to the right that he has to pay homage to people like Pat Robertson to get he Republican nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/130 "2010-07-30T16:14:34Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > Because not every liberal idea is always correct and absolute power corrupts absolutely. > > Is rent expensive in cliche world? Well imagine a country run by a pro-choice Mother Theresa. Or country whose policies were dictated by Gandhi. These are both heroes of mine (they are not without flaws) but don’t think it would work ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/131 "2010-07-30T16:15:37Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You need us mean and nasty conservatives to protect all the candy assed liberals from things that go bump in the night. To a liberal, conservatives ARE the things that go bump in the night. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/132 "2010-07-30T16:20:20Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > He licks his own balls daily. > > Don’t we all? Is there a class or something you can take for that? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/133 "2010-07-30T16:21:52Z")
Well, there would be, but conservatives blocked it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/134 "2010-07-30T16:24:37Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > > [@kingbighair](#): > > > > Because not every liberal idea is always correct and absolute power corrupts absolutely. > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. Well, the price of gold HAS been going up and they were pretty accurate about how then public would respond to blatant easily disprovable lies. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/135 "2010-07-30T16:26:35Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Demonizing such an opponent is dehumanizing them, “They are not part of the _real_ people,” and, as such, is counter-productive, malicious, and ignorant. I think conservatives deserve a little demonizing. Right now they seem to be conservatives first and Americans second. They are so convinced that the country would be better off with them in charge that they are willing to see their country harmed in order to ensure the shift of poer into their hands. “beware the impostures of pretended patriotism” -G. Washington ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/136 "2010-07-30T16:28:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@Sinaijon](#): > > > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > > > Name one issue that conservatives have ever been right about. I’ll wait. > > > > Eugenics > > Wait, what? 😕 Well, it works for watermelons. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/137 "2010-07-30T16:29:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > > > He licks his own balls daily. > > > > Don’t we all? > > Is there a class or something you can take for that? Yes, it’s called Scrotal Yoga ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/138 "2010-07-30T16:30:59Z")
The first serious expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit was in a Reagan tax cut bill. Reducing top marginal rates below 50% was a conservative idea. IRAs are a great retirement benefit pushed into law by conservatives. Conservatives argued for many years that the Second Amendment protected an American’s right to use a firearm to defend himself. The policy of containment of the Soviet Union was at essence a conservative proposal. The nuclear arms limitation and reduction treaties with Russia were all negotiated by conservative presidents (at least the ones that actually went into effect), up until the current one now pending negotiated by Obama. Opposition to racial quotas is a good thing. Calls to reform the welfare system seem to have been mostly successful. Applying laws Congress passed to the Congress is a fair proposal, and part of the Contract with America. The “loser pays” concept for limiting frivolous lawsuits may need some tweaks, but it’s a pretty responsible idea overall. I consider myself a liberal, and these all seem like reasonable and good ideas that came from conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/139 "2010-07-30T16:31:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > None of that sounds conservative at all, except arguably gun rights. Perhaps the point is that the word is nigh-meaningless in American politics now? My dad the Republican-straight-ticket voter and pro-lifer is not a conservative, because most of those statements of mine are things I learned from him and that we agree on? I wouldn’t say (given his voting pattern) that he’s adequately expressing his beliefs with his vote, but I think “conservative” applies to people to the left of Limbaugh, or Bush, or whoever. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524/140 "2010-07-30T16:32:41Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > My mind is open. Give me an argument. What is the value of conservatives? What do they bring? > > I already told you that. Without guys like me, guys like you would be working in the salt mines of the new overlord. Ya see, the world is not now, never has been, and ain’t never gonna be some hippie paradise. TANSTAAFL always applies. TANSTAAFL, which makes you wonder how the conservatives could cut taxes without cutting spending. It makes you wonder why so many conservaives believe that tax cuts will actually create more tax revenue at current tax rates. With that said, I think the sentiment you are trying to convey is that its a mean brutish world where physical force is the basic building block of power. I would suggest that the vast majority of the physical force in this world is in the hands of democracies and we can spare some of our attention on the soft and fuzzy stuff like justice and rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-conservatives-why/548524.md?page=8)