I am, I guess, considered liberal by many people here. Or undecided, Or “who the hell knows” by a few. But, I agree with Stan Shmenge and Sam Stone here. Neither liberal NOR conservative has to be the far fringe extremist kind. We can all believe in a system where the weak are protected from abuse by the strong, but also where the strong are not punished for being strong. A system where there are safety nets, but without government interference where it doesn’t belong. A system that provides freedom to believe or not believe as one chooses
Etc etc etc. We can and often do disagree on the best way to do things, but we USUALLY do have “good motives”.
I already said I don’t need some self appointed tough guy “protecting” me from ghosties and ghoulies and things that go bump in the night.
I also don’t need anyone flinging names around because I don’t happen to think as some “tough guy” thinks I should be made to think or say. That sort of thing is exactly what we should be “protecting” against.
You’ll protect me if I do/act/say/think what you tell me is allowed? I don’t think so. I prefer to protect myself - against people like you phony patriots and make believe heroes.
Maybe I’m just having a bad day. But I’m not just talking about the idiotic death wishes. Frankly, too many of the users of this board come across as hateful, prejudiced ideologues who reflexively defend the talking points of their leaders while simultaneously patting themselves on the back for being tolerant, original thinkers. It’s starting to really get under my skin, and it’s ridiculous to let anonymous strangers on a message board ruin your day.
Maybe so Sam, but methinks this is the wrong thread to make that point. Most of the activity in this thread involves lefties denouncing The Facts. I think there’s a total of 1 poster upthread who agrees with the guy.
Separately, I think lefties can pat themselves on the back for curbing the wackos in their midst. Just as righties should receive props in the bullrun pit thread.
I wish you were, but it has been a long time since someone claimed to be more liberal than I .
One problem is the conservatives vote against their own interests. They are convinced the party that gives us huge deficits every time they get in ,is fiscally conservative, while being the opposite. They are convinced the Dems want their guns. How stupid is that? But they just keep gobbling up lies and spouting them out in Palinesque fashion.
The leftist equivalent of the current rabid right would likely be many communists and anarchists. I have known a few and many are as rabid, ideological, unpragmatic and emotional as the right’s extremists.
But the communists are extremely marginalized within the democratic party. Even the progressive wing (seen as the ‘far left’ of the dems) is to the right of the communists. Very few people in the democratic party call for a fully centrally planned economy, collective farms, proletariat dictatorships, etc.
On the other hand the extremist wing of the GOP controls their party, or at the very least are influential enough to not be shouted down. Its not the same thing. The overton window has moved too far to the right.
As a WAG I’d say
communism – progressives/liberals – DLC/conservadems – new england republicans – Southern Republicans – Authoritarians/fascists
is a general left–right progression. However several people on the right running for political office have called for violence if they don’t win the next election. That puts them in fascist territory. There is no equivalent of Steve King or Sherron Angle on the left in congress.
There are almost no calls for communism from the left. Progressivism, yes, but not communism. The overton window needs to be adjusted.
I don’t see any calls to violence worth taking seriously enough to condemn it. Mostly, they’re talking about more chubby, middle-aged guys putting on cammys and toting hunting rifles around in groups, posturing and chin-jutting. To the dismay of Islamic terrorists and the grateful approval of their wives.
Wesley Clark: Certain modern conservative arguments also have their echoes in Marxist and post-modernist rhetoric. Expert advice can be shunted aside because its just a manifestation of [del]class bias[/del] liberalism: after all, everything is political and facts are really the other side’s argument dressed up a certain way. So there’s no reason to investigate the matter: it’s all ideology anyway. Props: Josh Marshall.
Similarly, Starve the Beast has its echos in the Marxists desire to speed up the inevitable final crisis of capitalism – since what would come after the great crisis will be so much better.
Today’s NYT Magazine had an article on these suburban warriors. My favorite quote:
Yes, not being a sniper at a sports stadium or a sociopath is a tremendous responsibility.
That is true about LBJ and the Vietnam war, I don’t remember the conservatives crying out for tax increases to pay for the watr but maybe they did and i just have selective memory, I DO remember them supporting the war generally.
Now add up all the deficits from the Bush reagan and Bush administrations, compound it to current value and you end up with a number that is very close to or national debt.
Ever hear of the peace dividend?
I think we need conservatives too. I was responding to the bullshit implication that our economic situation is somehow the fault of the liberals when almost then entire national debt is attributable to Republican deficits and the current recession is arguably the result of conservative laissez faire policies (some of which came from the Clinton white house).
How many times do we have to hear conservatives pretend that the racism of the dixiecrats are to be attributed to the liberals and Lincols is supposed to be attributed to the conservatives?
Hey smiling bandit, you see how the post you respond to uses the terms conservative/liberal and you convert them into Republicans (of 125 years ago) and the Democrats (before the Southern strategy converted Dixiecrats into Republicans).
Yeah, Goldwater Republicans were fine, what we have today bears no similarity to them and noone who want to return to those sort of principles want to give up control for the time that it wold take to build that sort of aprty.
That’s like the second time you channeled Jack Nicholson from a few good men. Yeah we need our military, we don’t need as much of it as we have and we certainly shouldn’t let our appreciation of the military make us subservient to it.
If so, you have only yourselves to blame, because it the was the Left’s outrageous, Libellous douchebaggery which destroyed Goldwater and his party. The Left destroyed the Right, and we are now reborn to return the favor. And we will forever dedicated ourselves to crushing and annihilating you and your entire ideology.
Then why don’t you guys clean house instead of shrugging your shoulders. Leave! Start a new party. Throw your weight behind the libertarians (I am now hopeful that a more mainstream libertarian movement will not be totally batshit crazy). Is it really better to part of a winning party that doesn’t focus on any of the conservative values you talk about or is it better to rebuild your party and compromise with a Democratic party that is frankly closer to where you wanted to be to begin with than the Bachmans and Becks of the world.
What the hell do you have in common with these people other than your misplaced outrage at government spending?
Point to ONE example of that in the federal work force. EVERY SINGLE example of this sort of outrage that anyone has come up with since I joined this board has occured at the lcoal level and yet conservatives think we should put concentrate more power at the local level.
Partially true. The republican aprty has gone off the raisl but I don’t see where the Democrats have. The only thing you have really pointed to is he4alth care reform but if you can remember back to 2008, health care reform was VERY much talked about during the campaign, the Democrats didn’t sandbag the country with health care reform, it was at the top of the agenda and and enjoyed broad support, heck it enjoys broad support today.
Not I. I was a Republican until about 2003. I started drifting left (or perhaps the ground was moving under me) in the 1990’s. When the Republicans impeached Clinton, I said WTF? I chuckled when we elected Bush then he passed unpaid for tax cuts and i stopped chuckling. Then he invaded Iraq and I registered Democrat.
The conservative movement these days are ideologists first and Americans second. And util that changes, I will never be a conservative again. I will lock arms with the idiots that want to save the spotted owl before I lock arms with the idiots that want to destroy the country just so they can blame it on the idiots that want to save spooted owls.