# We Need New Pizza Rules **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 18, 2012, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124 "2012-03-18T08:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/21 "2012-03-18T15:36:17Z")
I live in Saint Louis, and provel cheese is a requirement for true Saint Louis-style pizza. I’d respectfully request we add provel to the approved list of cheeses. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/22 "2012-03-18T15:45:53Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > All ingredients of the pizza must be edible. Olives must be pitted, shrimp must be minus the heads, tails and shells. Fruit, if it must be on there, should be without skin, rind or seeds if these are deemed inedible. In my opinion, this is the most important rule. Everything else can be argued as a matter of personal opinion. Some people hate pineapple on pizza, some people love it. The fact that the second group are obviously insane does not detract from the simple fact that they have a right to their opinion, even if it is wrong. But pizza is supposed to be ready-to-eat. Whether it is the Italian style that is generally meant to be eaten with knife and fork[1], or the American style that gets cut into pieces and eaten by hand, whether you make it at home or eat it at a restaurant or have the guy with the big light-up sign on top of his car drive it out to you - it’s a quick-to-munch meal to dig right into, not something you need to disassemble first. Putting an entire pineapple top in the middle of the alleged pizza is not fine cuisine, it’s an art project with food. [1] For the record, one of the best pizzas I had in Italy was in a hole-in-the-wall place in Rome. They appeared to be producing it by the square meter and handed you a rectangular piece on a paper plate. No knives and forks, even the plastic kind, to be found, though they had plenty of scratchy paper napkins. And a line out the door at lunchtime, because the pizza was that freaking delicious. And I’ll never find it again! _SOB_ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/23 "2012-03-18T16:04:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Pizza is a blank canvas - go nuts. I may not want to eat it, but I respect the right of the pizza maker to express himself. BBQ Chicken pizza? Delish. Pineapple and pepperoni? My favorite. When I saw the monstrosity in the OP I would have disagreed with this statement. But I’d have to make an exception for pineapple, since I like pineapple-and-ham pizza. I like BBQ chicken pizza. I like ‘Thai’ pizza. I have to grudgingly admit that the prize-winning pizza is a pizza. Still there’s got to be a line drawn somewhere. For example, I would not consider a disc of pizza dough topped with a layer of mashed potatoes, chicken-fried steak, and gravy to be a ‘pizza’. I like to make a sincronizada with refried beans, ham, and cheese. I call it a ‘mexican pizza’, but it’s not a pizza – and it wouldn’t be if I replaced the tortillas with pizza dough. Either of those might taste good, but they ain’t pizza. If ‘pizza’ is ‘anything put on a disc of pizza dough and baked’, then we might end up with Nutella-and-banana ‘pizza’ or strawberry-rhubarb ‘pizza’. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/24 "2012-03-18T16:16:15Z")
You cannot call your pizza “New York style” unless you have at least one New Yorker making it. Otherwise you get abominations. Home Slice Pizza of Toledo, I’m talking to YOU. Barf. On the other hand, Flying Pizza of Cincinnati and Dayton - thumbs up to you, since you are owned by someone from Queens, and it shows. I propose a similar rule for Chicago-style pizza, too. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/25 "2012-03-18T16:55:38Z")
Personally I can’t stand “Hawaiian” pizza (pineapple and ham). (taste aside, ughh, the wet gummy cheese underneath the watery ham?) But pineapple and pepperoni is divine! Just give it a shot people! The spiciness of the pepperoni playing off the sweet pineapple… mwah! And the pepperoni crisps up and doesn’t wet the pizza the way ham does. /end plug ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/26 "2012-03-18T17:16:15Z")
In defense of the Tropical Pie, the Las Vegas competition had two separate categories. One was “traditional pizza” which set limits on the ingredients. The other category (which the Tropical Pie won) was “gourmet pizza” which explicitly stated there were no rules on what could be used as ingredients. As somebody who’s eaten a pizza with M&M’s on it, I say there’s room for all kinds. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/27 "2012-03-18T17:20:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > … a disc of pizza dough topped with a layer of mashed potatoes … This is called “pagach”. My Russian grandmother used to make it, sometimes with a bit of gummint cheese mixed in with the potatoes. We usually ate it with homemade fruit jelly smeared on top. Wonderful, delicious, filling food, but it ain’t pizza. I’m with Alton Brown on the Three Toppings rule – sauce and cheese count. I usually just put a very simple sauce on mine with mozzarella and a little parmesan. Pizza is really about the crust. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/28 "2012-03-18T17:42:30Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Haters gotta be hatin’. > > Pizza is a blank canvas - go nuts. I may not want to eat it, but I respect the right of the pizza maker to express himself. BBQ Chicken pizza? Delish. Pineapple and pepperoni? My favorite. The thing that should be banned is the party cut. This is not about what dishes can be cooked or eaten. It’s about what dishes can be cooked or eaten, and still called\*\* pizza\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/29 "2012-03-18T17:51:12Z")
[quote=“Krokodil, post:1, topic:616124”] [ul] [li]Pizza, by definition, needs three ingredients: Flatbread or dough crust, mozzarella cheese and tomato sauce, preferably containing oregano. If it’s missing any of these ingredients, it must have a qualifier appended to its name (i.e. French Bread pizza, White pizza, Sicilian Pizza, Roman Pizza).[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] Sorry, I’m not giving up my eggplant/spinach/mozzarella pizza, which may or may not contain tomato sauce. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/30 "2012-03-18T18:04:52Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > According to [this](http://shine.yahoo.com/shine-food/worlds-best-gourmet-pizza-tropical-pie-wins-highest-220400837.html) story on Yahoo!, something called “Tropical Pie” won a prize for “Best Pizza” at a competition in Las Vegas. For those of you too justifiably timid to click on the link, this monstrosity has the top quarter of a pineapple (stalk and all) in the middle, has thinly-sliced limes dumped on it, and the whole atrocity was soaked with tequila before baking. > > I’m glad somebody enjoyed making and eating this thing, but let’s not call it a pizza. In the spirit of the German Beer Purity law and the rules of Kosher, we need to lay down some new laws for what can be called pizza. I’ll get the ball rolling: I agree completely, but you are too lenient below. > [@](#): > > Pizza, by definition, needs three ingredients: Flatbread or dough crust, mozzarella cheese and tomato sauce, preferably containing oregano. OK so far. > [@](#): > > If it’s missing any of these ingredients, it must have a qualifier appended to its name (i.e. French Bread pizza, White pizza, Sicilian Pizza, Roman Pizza). No! Whatever this shit is, it isn’t pizza. French Bread foo-froo pie or something like that, but _not_ pizza! > [@](#): > > All ingredients of the pizza must be edible. Olives must be pitted, Yes! > [@](#): > > shrimp must be minus the heads, tails and shells. No! Seafood does _not_ belong on pizza! (And for God’s sake are there really people who eat shrimp unshelled?) > [@](#): > > Fruit, if it must be on there, should be without skin, rind or seeds if these are deemed inedible. No! Fruit does _not_ belong on pizza! (Yes, I know tomato and pepper are really fruit. We can get around that by defining them as vegatables, and pedants deal with it.) > [@](#): > > What else? I am not wild about any non-dairy, non-vegetable ingredient other than pepperoni, but I guess I ought to be flexible on that note. ---
**Author:** ![Jamicat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/31 "2012-03-18T21:02:59Z")
It’s’a Pizza soon as’a you putt’a your finger’s in the Dough. 🆒 Three ingredients = Pizza: Bread, Sauce, Cheez… ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/32 "2012-03-18T21:24:39Z")
It must suck for Naples that one of the three traditional Neapolitan pizzas does not meet the crust/sauce/cheese requirement. And I had many good pizzas (pizza bianca and another one with figs on it) in Rome that didn’t meet these requirements. But what would Italy know about pizza? Dagnabbit, whatever way I happened to eat pizza as a child is obviously the only way any god-fearing person should ever eat it. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/33 "2012-03-18T23:33:49Z")
I’d like to propose another rule. **It must be cut like a pie**. 6 or 8 equal size triangular slices that you can pick up, fold in half and eat. Not the ridiculous little squares that are ubiquitous in Chicago. And as far as that concoction that Chicagoans call “deep dish pizza”, a New Yorker said it best: “That ain’t pizza. That’s a casserole”. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/34 "2012-03-18T23:34:33Z")
I think so long as there’s dough and it’s got sauce and/or cheese (people do have allergies, after all) it’s a pizza. But I object to the Tropical Pie on the same basis that you regularly hear on cooking competition shows (Iron Chef, Top Chef, Chopped, etc.) **Do not put anything on the plate that cannot be eaten.** If a garnish of a whole sprig of rosemary is unacceptable – and it is – then a pineapple top is just completely OTT. Especially in a competition. if you’re serving up food to judges that they cannot eat, how the hell do you win? That makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/35 "2012-03-19T00:03:57Z")
So to a lot of you, “real” Italian pizza (often no tomato sauce, often too crispy to fold and thus must be eaten with utensils, often not circular and thus cannot be cut like a pie) is not pizza. Interesting. Maybe this should be “New American Pizza Rules”, since obviously the originators of the foodstuff isn’t good enough for you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/36 "2012-03-19T00:31:02Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > I’d like to propose another rule. **It must be cut like a pie**. 6 or 8 equal size triangular slices that you can pick up, fold in half and eat. Not the ridiculous little squares that are ubiquitous in Chicago. > And as far as that concoction that Chicagoans call “deep dish pizza”, a New Yorker said it best: “That ain’t pizza. That’s a casserole”. This again disqualifies my poor beloved Saint Louis-style pizza. We just don’t get no love down here in the STL. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/37 "2012-03-19T00:42:37Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This again disqualifies my poor beloved Saint Louis-style pizza. We just don’t get no love down here in the STL. 😃 St. Louis should be barred from making pizza, period. That spaghetti-o sauce on a cracker that y’all eat down there is an abomination. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/38 "2012-03-19T01:29:38Z")
I’m on board with the Neapolitan rules. I strongly object to pizza needing a tomato sauce. The best pizzas I’ve had, had sliced tomatoes and no red sauce. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/39 "2012-03-19T02:03:54Z")
When we go for pizza, we get individual slices so we don’t have to squabble and compromise over toppings. Each of us gets what we like. Which is a good thing as far as Airman and the sprog are concerned. My favorite toppings these days are either broccoli or pineapple and onion. The sweetness of the pineapple goes well with the sharpness of the onion. (Broccoli is just awesome in general, and the reason I do this at all is because adding veggies or pineapple makes the pizza more filling and allows me to get in two more servings.) ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124/40 "2012-03-19T07:49:56Z")
> [@](#): > > “A lot of different types cuisines compete in the gourmet challenge,” says Andrew. “It’s a culinary phenomenon.” His fiercest competitor: a Japanese chef who made a rice crust topped with sushi-grade raw fish. Say what you will about the pineapple thing, but at least it looked like a pizza. This sushi one… Did it have cheese and sauce? If not, how is it even pizza… Just because it’s pizza in shape?? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-new-pizza-rules/616124.md?page=3)