# We need to call out inherent racism in explicit terms **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083 "2014-12-13T01:40:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/81 "2014-12-14T00:33:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This isn’t true at all. > > “White privilege” does not mean that white = racist. It means that white people do not experience racism the way that black people or Native Americans do. So in a discussion about race relations, a white people’s perspective is going to be very influenced by that limited experience. And because of that, likely off-base. Yup. If I want to discuss what it’s like to be tortured, I ought to pay extra attention to victims of torture. If I want to discuss what it’s like to have cancer, my opinion is not as interesting as the opinion of someone who’s actually had cancer. And if I want to discuss what impact racism has on society, I ought to spend most of my time listening to folks who have been impacted by racism. Perspectives matter. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/82 "2014-12-14T02:47:33Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Shit. I don’t have Facebook. Never have. > > Does that mean I’ve broken the Hitler barrier? Well, you know who else didn’t have a Facebook? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/83 "2014-12-14T02:49:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > -The Obama school of thought, that suggests that centuries of racism have deformed certain aspects of black culture, such as leading some black children to tear down academically successful black children and accuse them of acting white. Obama has spoken to groups of black graduates and told them they need to fight against this tendency and that black people need to work to change culture. Wow. I didn’t realize that Obama was that kind of elitist. Well, I guess it fits. Ugh! I’m not saying that attitude doesn’t exist, but if you act like anti-intellectualism is a “black” trait instead of a general disease among both blacks and whites, you aren’t helping. There are a lot more white people who hate the educated classes (like Obama) than there are blacks of any stripe, in this country. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/84 "2014-12-14T02:55:24Z")
(To be clear, I’m saying that Obama is hated because not only is he a “half-breed” but he’s an Ivy Leaguer–a double whammy. Not that Obama is one of the “white people who hate the educated classes.”) > [@DigitalC](#): > > Yeah, that’s pretty silly. I think health care workers give black people lower doses of pain killers because they think black people are exaggerating the pain in order to get drugs. I think this is probably true. And the health care workers don’t care about the black patients. The funny thing is, if a current or former habitual drug user has actual pain, they require higher doses of painkillers to manage it. So it’s not so much that they think black people have drug problems as that they think black people are lawless and going to try to game the system–probably to resell the drugs. Of course, white folk would do that too, but white people are higher-class and get better treatment. Everybody is expected to know that. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/85 "2014-12-14T03:30:21Z")
I’m not trying to be another **get lives** here, but the [research](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140228121359.htm) shows that it has nothing to do with the fear of drug abuse. Can’t ya’ll at least read the links before concluding the findings are silly? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/86 "2014-12-14T03:47:56Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > You’re not good with the reading comprehension, are you? If ignorance is bliss, you must be euphoric. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/87 "2014-12-14T05:03:41Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m not trying to be another **get lives** here, but the [research](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140228121359.htm) shows that it has nothing to do with the fear of drug abuse. Can’t ya’ll at least read the links before concluding the findings are silly? I kinda thought **DigitalC** was riffing sarcastically there, though maybe I’m reverse-whooshing myself. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/88 "2014-12-14T05:04:46Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m not trying to be another **get lives** here, but the [research](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140228121359.htm) shows that it has nothing to do with the fear of drug abuse. Can’t ya’ll at least read the links before concluding the findings are silly? That’s interesting. Why do you think the kids showed this type of perception? Do you think it is because the 7 year olds were racists or expressing racist beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/89 "2014-12-14T05:25:03Z")
What I dont get is the people who bring this all up, dont work to find any solutions. they only site all the problems and this leads to calling others bigots. So what are the solutions? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/90 "2014-12-14T05:56:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > “White privilege” does not mean that white = racist. It means that white people do not experience racism the way that black people or Native Americans do. So in a discussion about race relations, a white people’s perspective is going to be very influenced by that limited experience. And because of that, likely off-base. Does the converse work as well? Can I say that \*“Black privilege” does not mean that black = racist. It means that black people do not experience racism the way that white people or Native Americans do. So in a discussion about race relations, a black people’s perspective is going to be very influenced by that limited experience. And because of that, likely off-base. \* ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/91 "2014-12-14T06:17:27Z")
Well, yes. Black people often don’t understand or care about the way they sound to white people. And white people often don’t understand or care about the way they sound to black people. Which side has more money and power? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/92 "2014-12-14T11:01:23Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Does the converse work as well? Can I say that \*“Black privilege” does not mean that black = racist. It means that black people do not experience racism the way that white people or Native Americans do. So in a discussion about race relations, a black people’s perspective is going to be very influenced by that limited experience. And because of that, likely off-base. > \* You can say whatever the fuck you want to say. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/93 "2014-12-14T11:20:54Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I dont get is the people who bring this all up, dont work to find any solutions. they only site all the problems and this leads to calling others bigots. > > So what are the solutions? If (generic) you reflexively roll your eyes whenever the conversation turns to race, you have a tendency to downplay concerns about racism, and you label people who have concerns about racism in disparaging ways, then you are a part of the problem. Both empirical evidence and historical fact indicates that these concerns are valid. As long as people keep denying that racism is still a problem, racism will never go away. For me, it’s not about labeling people as bigots. I know I harbor prejudices and implicit biases too. But I don’t use “everyone is a little racist” as an excuse. I _am_ responsible for my prejudices and implicit biases. I don’t have to let them affect my interactions with people. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/94 "2014-12-14T12:17:03Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Does the converse work as well? Can I say that \*“Black privilege” does not mean that black = racist. It means that black people do not experience racism the way that white people or Native Americans do. So in a discussion about race relations, a black people’s perspective is going to be very influenced by that limited experience. And because of that, likely off-base. > \* Consider the example of cancer. The privilege position is not having experience cancer, and those of us who haven’t lived through cancer probably ought to pay extra attention to those who have, during discussions of cancer, because those who have lived through it will have a perspective on cancer influenced by that experience. The converse is to say that those who lived through cancer ought to pay extra attention to those who haven’t, because those who haven’t lived through it will have a perspective on cancer influenced by never having had it. That sounds pretty stupid, doesn’t it? Similarly, if you’re white, the amount of racism you’ve experienced personally is almost certainly **trivial** compared to what the average black American has experienced. Your perspective in the conversation is analogous to the perspective of a cancer-free person. You can still talk, just like I can talk about cancer. But I’ll do much better spending my time listening. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/95 "2014-12-14T12:34:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So what are the solutions? I just read this [critique](http://mashable.com/2014/12/11/exodus-movie-racist/) of Ridley Scott’s _Exodus: Gods and King_. Perhaps one solution to combating racism is for people to stop supporting movies where all the dark-skinned people are relegated to scenery. With Hollywood having the diverse acting talent that it has right now, such a film is simply unacceptable in 2014. If we stop supporting these films and excusing lazy filmmaking, maybe this bullshit will stop. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/96 "2014-12-14T13:04:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I dont get is the people who bring this all up, dont work to find any solutions. they only site all the problems and this leads to calling others bigots. > > So what are the solutions? Kill Whitey? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/97 "2014-12-14T13:26:34Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Shit. I don’t have Facebook. Never have. > > Does that mean I’ve broken the Hitler barrier? I used to have a Facebook, but then I deleted it. I guess that makes me worse than Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/98 "2014-12-14T14:03:03Z")
I have never heard a healthcare worker say blacks feel less pain, I have heard then complain that blacks patients tend to tolerate pain less well. Loud screaming patients of any race will tend to piss off the Dr’s and nurses. Lower economic status does seem to play a part here. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/99 "2014-12-14T14:32:04Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have never heard a healthcare worker say blacks feel less pain, I have heard then complain that blacks patients tend to tolerate pain less well. Loud screaming patients of any race will tend to piss off the Dr’s and nurses. Lower economic status does seem to play a part here. Since it is clear people aren’t bothering to read the study, I will post the abstract. Perhaps this will entice ya’ll to gather more information before throwing out WAGs. From [Racial Bias in Perceptions of Others’ Pain](http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048546) > [@](#): > > The present work provides evidence that people assume a priori that Blacks feel less pain than do Whites. It also demonstrates that this bias is rooted in perceptions of status and the privilege (or hardship) status confers, not race per se. Archival data from the National Football League injury reports reveal that, relative to injured White players, injured Black players are deemed more likely to play in a subsequent game, possibly because people assume they feel less pain. Experiments 1–4 show that White and Black Americans–including registered nurses and nursing students–assume that Black people feel less pain than do White people. Finally, Experiments 5 and 6 provide evidence that this bias is rooted in perceptions of status, not race per se. Taken together, these data have important implications for understanding race-related biases and healthcare disparities. And this [article](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/04/children-think-black-people-feel-less-pain_n_4891296.html) cites a study involving children showing the same bias. > [@](#): > > But when does this bias start? Psychologists at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville surveyed a sample of mostly white children at age five, seven, and 10. The children rated how much pain they expected two other children – one black and one white – would feel in certain situations, like biting their tongue, or hitting their head. > > The five-year-olds reported that the two children would feel about the same amount of pain. But a weak racial bias emerged in the seven-year-olds, and by age 10, the children showed a “strong and reliable racial bias” in that the white child would feel more pain than the black child. This isn’t about perceptions about drug abuse. It’s NOT about those ghetto black people screaming their fool head off in the emergency room. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083/100 "2014-12-14T14:33:16Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have never heard a healthcare worker say blacks feel less pain, I have heard then complain that blacks patients tend to tolerate pain less well. Loud screaming patients of any race will tend to piss off the Dr’s and nurses. Lower economic status does seem to play a part here. Have you considered that the level of pain the healthcare workers expected the black patients to tolerate was unreasonable, and that the patients felt it necessary to be loud in order to get the healthcare workers to pay attention to their needs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-need-to-call-out-inherent-racism-in-explicit-terms/707083.md?page=6)