# We really need a new "Star Trek" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 1, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643 "2014-01-01T16:34:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/21 "2014-01-01T19:26:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > We don’t need another Star Trek. We need another Babylon 5. Seconded. B5 had all the stuff that makes sci-fi television great. Big bad guys, lots of conflict, flawed good guys who make mistakes, but also a rock-solid sense of hope that things would get better if the good guys just worked hard enough/were smart enough. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/22 "2014-01-01T19:26:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > We don’t need another Star Trek. We need another Babylon 5. I agree, but only as long as some coked up studio fuck isn’t allowed to mess with it. See Also: Crusade. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/23 "2014-01-01T19:38:25Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I don’t mean necessarily a new series in either the old or the new universes or a Re-Re-Boot. What I mean is we really need some science fiction that takes place in a hopeful, optimistic future. Nearly all mainstream sci fi and YA sci fi is chockfull of Dystopias. World most people would never want to live it. > > I get that that makes conflict and story telling easier but really, can’t we just have one setting that shows humanity at its best? A future that is brighter than the one we have now; that focuses on the things we do right? I say it’s way over due. I agree. Dark and gritty is soooooooo overdone. ST had plenty of conflict without being Dark and gritty. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/24 "2014-01-01T19:43:08Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > Yes, said gentleman was aware that Foglio based Buck Godot on him, at least visually, and Phil actually asked the man’s permission prior to using his likeness. > > Did he get a piece of the action? I honestly don’t know, neither discussed the matter with me. My interactions with the man “Buck Godot” largely involved a group of us that happened to include him going to a restaurant and stuffing our faces with yummy food and casual conversation. I met Phil Foglio because I used to work for/help out the artist who was doing the inking on _Psmith_. I have no idea if Phil would remember me or not but he was certainly an interesting character. Most of my interactions with him and his buddies were on a purely social level so business was not discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/25 "2014-01-01T19:46:06Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Its not Terrans but an optimistic science-fiction ‘story world’ is that depicted in The Culture series of novels by Iain M. Banks, in fact its the best materalist utopia I’ve read about though I understand why some people think its actually a dystopia, mainly because all power is ceded into the fields of godlike benign AI ‘Minds’. > > But I agree with you that doom and gloom is overdone in sci-fi, John Scalzi has a number of very fun and upbeat sci-fi novels but the story-universe itself isn’t very optimistic, humanity very much has to fight, often literally, for its place in a crowded universe. > > Oddly enough although its premise appeals to me I’ve never found Star Trek interesting, I haven’t watched enough of it to really explain why. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Neal Asher’s Polity series (which must surely be inspired by the _Culture_ universe, as it shares many similarities) is another possibility. I think the OP was talking about TV SF. But if we’re including book series, I’d add Lois McMaster Bujold’s Vorkosigan series as an example of optimistic science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/26 "2014-01-01T19:59:40Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Did he get a piece of the action? > [@Broomstick](#): > > I honestly don’t know, neither discussed the matter with me… I think **NCB** was making a joke: [A Piece of the Action (episode) | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/A_Piece_of_the_Action_(episode)) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/27 "2014-01-01T20:34:33Z")
I’d settle for a show that inspired youngish people to be interested in space flight as a viable thing that we could be exploring if we really wanted to, instead of a boring footnote of history that is only thought of as a quaint idea, if it’s thought of at all. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/28 "2014-01-01T20:39:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Quite frankly when I rewatch STNG a lot of the episodes are pretty boring. Utopia is boring. Spacial anomalies are not compelling villains. Drama comes from conflict. Depends on your sci-fi preferences, I’d say, though tv doesn’t lend itself to the sort of hard sci-fi that print has made interesting for almost a century. I’d be interested to see a good Utopia since, like Agent Smith, I think it’s something we talk about wanting but don’t really want, kinda like when 20-something women say they want a nice guy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/29 "2014-01-01T20:52:59Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I think **NCB** was making a joke: [A Piece of the Action (episode) | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/A_Piece_of_the_Action_(episode)) It was the Chicago ref that set it up :dubious: - Fizz Bin? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/30 "2014-01-01T20:55:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Neal Asher’s Polity series (which must surely be inspired by the _Culture_ universe, as it shares many similarities) is another possibility. I’ll definitely have to check him out, thanks, like the OP I’m so done with depressing science-fiction, British authors especially seem to thing we want to read about a bunch of self-centred cynical jerks in a horribly nightmarish future. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > The big problem is that audiences _like_ dark and futile futures, as well as characters with issues. So an optimistic SF series is unlikely to catch on. Surely the wild success of Star Trek and Star Wars _(granted the latter is as much fantasy as sci-fi)_ proves that that is not necessarily the case? The movie Prometheus popped into my mind when I read your post, my god I’m not difficult to please but its probably the epitome of depressing modern science fiction, and its a terrible movie to boot. > [@Smeghead](#): > > I’d settle for a show that inspired youngish people to be interested in space flight as a viable thing that we could be exploring if we really wanted to, instead of a boring footnote of history that is only thought of as a quaint idea, if it’s thought of at all. True, something with a more realistic bent could be interesting if well done. When I was growing up the astronauts/cosmonauts were my heroes, but this was the 1980’s and I was probably already behind the curve even then. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the OP was talking about TV SF. But if we’re including book series, I’d add Lois McMaster Bujold’s Vorkosigan series as an example of optimistic science fiction. On re-reading the OP you may be right, but the television series pickings are pretty slim and I personally haven’t seen many of the more recent ones. The ‘Wild West in Space’ thing has never did it for me. Why rehash an earlier historical era, think of something new. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/31 "2014-01-01T21:04:35Z")
Like Horatio Hornblower? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/32 "2014-01-01T21:05:55Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > The ‘Wild West in Space’ thing has never did it for me. Why rehash an earlier historical era, think of something new. The idea was that a frontier is a frontier no matter when or where, which I thought was clever, especially since the advanced places were typical sci-fi mega-cities. Heinlein played with the same idea in his universe, iirc - I definitely recall some other settlers giving Lazarus Long some guff about building a cabin with indoor plumbing rather than using an outhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/33 "2014-01-01T21:11:54Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > The idea was that a frontier is a frontier no matter when or where, which I thought was clever, especially since the advanced places were typical sci-fi mega-cities. Heinlein played with the same idea in his universe, iirc - I definitely recall some other settlers giving Lazarus Long some guff about building a cabin with indoor plumbing rather than using an outhouse. Sure, but if I want to watch/read about frontier life I can read about the American colonisation period, I don’t particularly want to read about someone building a log cabin in a gee-whiz sci-fi universe, I want to read about the gee-whiz stuff. It just seems to defeat the purpose as far as I’m concerned. But this is entirely a personal preference and Wild West stuff in general never really interested me. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/34 "2014-01-01T21:30:02Z")
FWIW I wasn’t only talking about Television. Discussion of any medium is fine. Also I don’t think it’s impossible to have conflict in an optimistic setting (almost fifty years of Star Trek prove that). It’s just harder to do. I also reject saying “That’s what audiences want now”. Since that is essentially all we are getting, that is circular logic. Optimistic settings still work in fantasy (Harry Potter for example. It has its dark moments but I don’t think anyone would call it “Dark and Gritty”) so why not Sci Fi? I think it’s more an issue with creative laziness and pervasive cynicism. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/35 "2014-01-01T21:47:12Z")
Anybody watch _Almost Human_\*? It doesn’t portray a future utopia (it is a crime show after all), but it definitely isn’t a dystopic wasteland either. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/36 "2014-01-01T21:56:15Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Anybody watch _Almost Human_\*? It doesn’t portray a future utopia (it is a crime show after all), but it definitely isn’t a dystopic wasteland either. Yes, I’m enjoying it. It has a Trek connection with the lead dick being Bones from the reboot. Heh heh… Dick… Bones… . ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/37 "2014-01-01T22:16:23Z")
I’d say the universe in Mass Effect is generally pretty optimistic. Of course, the player deals with a lot of crap, seedy individuals, corruption, and so on. But the player is a hybrid of military and interplanetary cop (and part of a small radical human splinter cell in the second game). Of course the player is going to see a lot of crap, because that stuff is interesting. Overall, though, I felt like the games had a generally optimistic view of the future. It’s just the tenor of the games, behind some of the racial tensions and corporate politics, behind the crap the player has to deal with to **keep** it peaceful, it felt like the modern day world, except with awesome spaceships and less disease and so on. (This applies to Citadel Space more than the Terminus Systems) I mean, okay, there’s a cycle of doom in the universe about to tear down the entirety of civilization. But that’s an external threat, the civilization actually crafted was pretty sweet despite a few rough spots. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/38 "2014-01-01T22:26:58Z")
I agree about Mass Effect. In fact, in many ways it’s the spiritual heir to B5. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/39 "2014-01-01T22:32:29Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’d say the universe in Mass Effect is generally pretty optimistic. > > \ > > I mean, okay, there’s a cycle of doom in the universe about to tear down the entirety of civilization. But that’s an external threat, the civilization actually crafted was pretty sweet despite a few rough spots. I can’t believe I forgot about Mass Effect, I agree with you except I think the atmosphere was more ‘real world’ than optimistic _or_ pessimistic, kind of ‘this is how it is, now we have to get on with it’ and that how things turned out was very much in the hands of individuals, humanity and the wider multi-species civilisation. But I did love the story-universe that was crafted, one of my favourite in any medium. I do think it did an excellent job of showing characters and civilisations in shades of grey, nobody was entirely good or entirely evil. Take the Asari for instance, it would have been easy to throw human conceptions of an entirely female society onto them but the game producers avoided that, they were depicted as one of the leaders of galactic civilisation, powerful and generally benign but with hints that they were falling into stagnation and may be overtaken by more ‘youthful’ and energetic peoples such as humanity. I also thought humanity was depicted well, you can just see humanity finding the wider galactic society, putting our collective feet up and saying, “Oh, hey, nice place you’ve got here, mind if we move in?”, and winding up other species by doing so. Yes, to recap, good choice Jragon! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/40 "2014-01-01T22:38:50Z")
It was optimistic in that it was, in the end, a story about bringing people together, humans and aliens all setting aside their grudges to stand shoulder to shoulder against the darkness. If that’s not optimism, then I don’t know what is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643.md?page=3)