# We really need a new "Star Trek" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 1, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643 "2014-01-01T16:34:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/41 "2014-01-01T22:43:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It was optimistic in that it was, in the end, a story about bringing people together, humans and aliens all setting aside their grudges to stand shoulder to shoulder against the darkness. If that’s not optimism, then I don’t know what is. True the story was optimistic but I don’t think the story-universe and setting were particularly. But I’m just splitting hairs. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/42 "2014-01-01T23:37:59Z")
I don’t want a new _Star Trek: The Next Generation_, I want a new _Stargate SG-1_. It doesn’t revel in being a utopia even when arguing that it is immoral to save people from natural disasters, and settles for “humanity are not generally dicks”. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/43 "2014-01-01T23:56:23Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > ISurely the wild success of Star Trek and Star Wars _(granted the latter is as much fantasy as sci-fi)_ proves that that is not necessarily the case? **Star Trek** came out in 1966. STTNG in 1987. **Star Wars** in 1977. It was a far different world back then. This is 2014, and people want dark. Look at shows like **Hannibal** and **The Following** – everything is filled with mindless evil. Current sf/fantasy includes **The Walking Dead, Grimm** (best when it’s light, but there’s plenty of darkness to go around), **Once Upon a Time** (dark and gloomy fairy tales), and **Once Upon a Time in Wonderland**. The audience does not care for characters who don’t have dark secrets and villains who push the evil to 11. Note in this thread: a couple of people have said that you need conflict for good fiction. That’s true, but the comments show that what they mean by “conflict” is “cruel and sadistic bad guys who commit grandiose crimes.” A science fiction show that didn’t have the fate of worlds in the balance – no matter how good – is not going to attract an audience. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/44 "2014-01-02T00:05:19Z")
How about a series set in a near future and limited to the Solar System, like Ben Bova’s [Grand Tour](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour_(novel_series)) series? And that can be as optimistic as you like – just assume there’s controlled nuclear fusion and nanotech and neural-electronic interfaces and space elevators, anything theoretically possible now has been worked out, but no need to go so far as warp drive or transporter beams. You can’t have sentient ETs in it, not if you want to keep it hard-SF, but humans provide more than enough of their own conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/45 "2014-01-02T00:11:19Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **Star Trek** came out in 1966. STTNG in 1987. **Star Wars** in 1977. It was a far different world back then. This is 2014, and people want dark. Look at shows like **Hannibal** and **The Following** – everything is filled with mindless evil. Current sf/fantasy includes **The Walking Dead, Grimm** (best when it’s light, but there’s plenty of darkness to go around), **Once Upon a Time** (dark and gloomy fairy tales), and **Once Upon a Time in Wonderland**. The audience does not care for characters who don’t have dark secrets and villains who push the evil to 11. > > Note in this thread: a couple of people have said that you need conflict for good fiction. That’s true, but the comments show that what they mean by “conflict” is “cruel and sadistic bad guys who commit grandiose crimes.” A science fiction show that didn’t have the fate of worlds in the balance – no matter how good – is not going to attract an audience. And yet both Star Trek and Star Wars are still extremely popular, so they are obviously still fulfilling a need in todays society. Basically I think I agree with Quimby, and that an optimistic, original and _well made_ science-fiction series would easily have mass appeal. But for whatever reason the TV people don’t want to risk trying it. I also think there is something of a blowback regarding ‘dark and gritty’, look at the negative reaction to the latest Superman movie. And for the love of god can we stop making Sci-fi/Horror movies, I’ve never understood why those two genres have become so closely linked in the movie making business. Edited to add that BrainGluttons suggestion sounds good. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/46 "2014-01-02T00:38:03Z")
I think that the _Star Trek_ setting is due for a dark turn. If I remember the _Voyager_ finale correctly, time travel shenanigans have delivered a very very high-tech ship into the Federation’s hands. I want to see the Federation reverse engineer the tech from that ship and upgrade their whole fleet. They take out the Borg, then turn their attention to the Romulans and other rivals. Military victories allow some nasty and jingoistic politicians to gain influence, and the Federation goes a bit power-hungry. Fast forward a few decades. The Federation is the Evil Empire. It controls a lot more turf, but has lost that bright bubbly optimism it had been known for. The Romulans, Klingons, etc. are more or less caught up technologically thanks to some lucky espionage, and are each waging wars of independence. The main characters are, say, the crew of an unaligned courier ship that in the course of taking odd jobs gets swept up in the independence movements and later with elements within the Federation working to overthrow the government. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/47 "2014-01-02T00:38:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You can’t have sentient ETs in it, not if you want to keep it hard-SF, but humans provide more than enough of their own conflict. E.g., see _Firefly/Serenity._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/48 "2014-01-02T00:43:58Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **Star Trek** came out in 1966. STTNG in 1987. **Star Wars** in 1977. It was a far different world back then. This is 2014, and people want dark. Look at shows like **Hannibal** and **The Following** – everything is filled with mindless evil. Current sf/fantasy includes **The Walking Dead, Grimm** (best when it’s light, but there’s plenty of darkness to go around), **Once Upon a Time** (dark and gloomy fairy tales), and **Once Upon a Time in Wonderland**. The audience does not care for characters who don’t have dark secrets and villains who push the evil to 11. Once Upon a Time is not “dark and gloomy”. But yes, a decade a go there was a push for 'darker, edgier and grittier". It’s past. Time for the pendulum to swing back. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/49 "2014-01-02T00:51:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You can’t have sentient ETs in it, not if you want to keep it hard-SF,. Hal Clement, Mission of Gravity . Niven, Ringworld. Robert L. Forward, Dragon’s Egg The Murasaki shared universe. and so forth. I suspect that a discussion of kilt length is coming, however. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/50 "2014-01-02T01:18:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Diplomatic Mission Impossible I rather like that, and if I ever get off my dead ass and actually WRITE one of the treatments I keep threatening to do, I’d get together with you on it. Saw a commentary a couple weeks ago that suggested the best thing for the Star Trek reboot would be to kill Kirk. I’m all in favor of that, along with killing Spock. There is a whole universe out there, far too much to limit the stories to two people and their peripherals. DS9 was good, TNG was good, a B5 continuation (B6?) could be interesting, but something new would be better. Books I’ve reread recently that have potential for inspiring a series are _The Anubis Gates_, where Technology meets Magic and History with a proto-Steampunk feel, and _The Big Time_, which has teams fixing things and changing outcomes, except in Time. Both are costumers, which are popular, and their universes are expandable. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/51 "2014-01-02T01:20:15Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Note in this thread: a couple of people have said that you need conflict for good fiction. That’s true, but the comments show that what they mean by “conflict” is “cruel and sadistic bad guys who commit grandiose crimes.” A science fiction show that didn’t have the fate of worlds in the balance – no matter how good – is not going to attract an audience. You can have dystopic elements without making humanity dicks. You can have interpersonal conflict without making humanity dicks. Even Warhammer 40,000, a setting where interstellar travel is accomplished by flying through _hell_ and navigation uses a lighthouse powered by souls, has room for stories where the protagonists are reasonably decent people. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/52 "2014-01-02T04:46:58Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Why does it have to be drama? I’d love to see a light-hearted SF space show, like _GalaxyQuest: The Series_ noted above. It is also possible to have conflict and drama without going off the deep end as so many writers have done in the last few decades. Sure, the light-hearted Galaxy Quest where the friendly alien race is the victim of genocide, there is a torture scene and a character is sent into a homicial Berserker rage by the murder of another. I’m not saying that light-hearted SF is impossible. Look at Doctor Who. I’d say that’s pretty popular and at its heart it’s about a wise cracking hero saving the day. But that’s different than utopian SF. Bow ties are cool and Utopias are boring. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/53 "2014-01-02T05:11:33Z")
Meh. I’ve always found Dr. Who to be the epitome of boring. I think the key factor to good SF is that it can’t be British. d&r ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/54 "2014-01-02T05:21:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > …You can’t have sentient ETs in it, not if you want to keep it hard-SF, but humans provide more than enough of their own conflict. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Hal Clement, Mission of Gravity . > > Niven, Ringworld. > > Robert L. Forward, Dragon’s Egg > > The Murasaki shared universe… And: Niven and Pournelle, _The Mote in God’s Eye_ Joe Haldeman, _All My Sins Remembered_ Joe Haldeman, _The Forever War_ George R.R. Martin, _Tuf Voyaging_ etc. etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/55 "2014-01-02T07:50:39Z")
In order for ‘hopeful’ to work, you have to be in a hopeless situation. When ‘real’ Kirk defeats the Romulans in an epic battle, he offers to beam aboard the survivors. He hasn’t lost his humanity. He spares the Gorn, even though he does not know how the Metrons will react to him doing that. I found Babylon 5 to be a very hopeful and even inspiring series. Sheridan was great with his speeches. Star Trek was ‘different’ in that everyone in Starfleet was a ‘good’ guy. It doesn’t have to be that way to be hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/56 "2014-01-02T11:04:31Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m not saying that light-hearted SF is impossible. Look at Doctor Who. I’d say that’s pretty popular and at its heart it’s about a wise cracking hero saving the day. But that’s different than utopian SF. Bow ties are cool and Utopias are boring. You can have interesting stories set in a utopia, even an apparently perfect society will have its dissidents and outliers. Iain Banks focused on non-Culture citizens and the semi-respectable elements of his utopian society such as the ‘intelligence/military/dirty tricks’ arm called Special Circumstances in his stories. But yes he also stated that an interesting story actually set in utopia about people living a perfect lifestyle becomes boring quickly. > [@silenus](#): > > Meh. I’ve always found Dr. Who to be the epitome of boring. I think the key factor to good SF is that it can’t be British. Plenty of good British sci-fi, not so much on television maybe although Red Dwarf was very good. Oh and a friend would kill me if I didn’t mention Quartermass although I’ve never seen it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/57 "2014-01-02T15:08:49Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Quite frankly when I rewatch STNG a lot of the episodes are pretty boring. Utopia is boring. Spacial anomalies are not compelling villains. Drama comes from conflict. I couldn’t disagree more. The space anomalies were exactly what had me hooked on the series. I’ve been hoping for a new Star Trek that went back to the TNG way: fewer politics, fewer “bad guys”, and more science. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/58 "2014-01-02T15:26:13Z")
Utopias are just settings. A story where people just sit around and pat each other on the back about how awesome their lives are is boring. It is possible to set an exciting story in a world where people and society have solved most of the problems that plague us today. BTW Mass Effect was a great example I did not think of. Not a perfect world, even a dangerous one, but at least a generally better one than what we have now (until the whole Reaper Crisis of course) with people that can exemplify our better qualities. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/59 "2014-01-02T16:07:15Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > …I’ve been hoping for a new Star Trek that went back to the TNG way: fewer politics, fewer “bad guys”, and more science. Me too! Enough with knocking down one villain after another amid lots of 'splosions. I’d like to see a _Star Trek_ movie in which the big budget is spent on developing an interesting and plausible alien race with whom Kirk & Co. establish first contact. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643/60 "2014-01-02T17:00:36Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’d like to see a _Star Trek_ movie in which the big budget is spent on developing an interesting and plausible alien race with whom Kirk & Co. establish first contact. _My Dinner with Andre of Betelgeuse_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-really-need-a-new-star-trek/677643.md?page=4)