# "We reserve the right to refuse service" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 24, 2007, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739 "2007-08-24T06:53:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/21 "2007-08-24T21:34:50Z")
Actually, I think you will find that the genesis of the sign “We reserve the right to refuse service” is to avoid a claim that the menu constitutes an open offer of a contract, and the order an acceptance, which the restaurant owner cannot refuse to take. The disclaimer acts to limit the offer of food for money to those people whom the restaurant wishes to serve. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/22 "2007-08-24T21:52:09Z")
“Genesis” is correct, as case law and the Universal Commercial Code, adopted by every state but La., have long since established that a menu or an advertisement is not an open offer of a contract. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/23 "2007-08-24T21:53:26Z")
This probably stems from the '64 Civil Rights Act. Before then it was a given that a restaurant, a bar, a hotel, a coffee shop, etc. was privately owned, and that said owner had the power that a homeowner would. He could exclude anyone at anytime for any reason. Even if that meant he was a racist and didn’t want blacks, Chinese, or Jews in his restaurant. Today, a lot of us know that it is illegal to discriminate in a “place of public accomodation”, but we don’t realize that those rights are only limited to the protected classes under law. If I walk into a restaurant drunk, and the manager tells me to leave, it is not my “right” to be in the restaurant, and the manager is not “discriminating” against me because I’m \_\_\_\_\_\_. He has still retained his property rights in all other aspects, however, the “we have the right to refuse service” sign is necessary to remind any numbskulls that they can’t demand service for any reason… ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/24 "2007-08-24T22:06:29Z")
I’ve heard this conversation quite a few times from other retailers: **Retailer:** Sorry, this item has been put out the wrong price, the actual price is £X **Customer:** But if you’ve got it advertised at that price you’ve got to sell it to me at that price. **Retailer:** I don’t have to serve you at all. Get out. That was paraphrased of course but you get my point. In UK sales law no contract is made until money changes hands, or physical contracts are exchanged. So a customer can no more _make_ a shop (or restaurant) serve them anymore than the shop could _make_ the customer purchase something. Of course some shops may of course have other policies if they choose to. Usually for customer service or customer relations reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/25 "2007-08-24T23:09:49Z")
Restaurants also post such signs for the “benefit” of those who think that buying a $1.00 cup of coffee entitles them to take up a seat for hours at a time. The sign reminds these _coff_ retired old men _coff_ that the restaurant is within its rights to tell them, “Okay, time to spend some more money, or get stepping.” ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/26 "2007-08-25T00:59:55Z")
As a manager at a fast food restaurant I actually had to invoke the “we reserve the right to refuse service” policy. The guy was being an insufferably impossible ass. He was a complete prick whose only purpose for coming into the establishment was to verbally abuse everyone on the staff. he complained about everything and insulted people. I had enough of his crap one morning and told him we don’t have to put up with him. He called the 1-800 bitching line and lodged a complaint. I never saw the jerk again, thank God. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/27 "2007-08-25T05:37:33Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] “And the sign said, long haired freaky people need not apply.” [/QUOTE] _“So I stuffed my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why.”_ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/28 "2007-08-25T12:23:33Z")
Slightly funny anecdote relevant to the racist restaurant above & the Denny’s crack that followed … I ate in a Denny’s a couple weeks ago for the first time in a couple years. On the wall in the waiting area was a framed poster saying (in fine marketing-speak) essentially “You have the right to a pleasant meal & we promise to deliver.” The picture was of a smiling party of 6 being served by 2 happy servers. Lots of comfort food on the table. And all 8 of them were very, very White. Not just causcasian race, but culturally White, like Atlanta suburban White. I know Denny’s challenges were a long time ago, but still … The unstated message was stronger than the stated one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/29 "2007-08-25T18:04:20Z")
[QUOTE=essell] I’ve heard this conversation quite a few times from other retailers: **Retailer:** Sorry, this item has been put out the wrong price, the actual price is £X **Customer:** But if you’ve got it advertised at that price you’ve got to sell it to me at that price. **Retailer:** I don’t have to serve you at all. Get out. That was paraphrased of course but you get my point. In UK sales law no contract is made until money changes hands, or physical contracts are exchanged. So a customer can no more _make_ a shop (or restaurant) serve them anymore than the shop could _make_ the customer purchase something.. [/QUOTE] This is certainly not true in America and doing so could get a retailer into a shit-load of trouble. IANAL, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/30 "2007-08-25T18:28:27Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] This is certainly not true in America and doing so could get a retailer into a shit-load of trouble. IANAL, YMMV. [/QUOTE] It is certainly true in America. There’s always a disclaimer for misprints if it’s an advertised price, such as for a newspaper circular. Items that have the wrong price tag or are on the wrong hook where another item should be are up to the discretion of the store if it’s an honest mistake. They don’t have to sell you squat. Of course they’re not free to bait and switch, but it comes down to intention. If you’re scanned for $19.99 and the shelf says $18.99, chances are they’ll sell it to you at that price. But if the plasma scans for $2999 and the shelf price is mistakenly $1999, they’re under no legal obligation to you. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/31 "2007-08-25T19:44:56Z")
[QUOTE=Balthisar] It is certainly true in America. There’s always a disclaimer for misprints if it’s an advertised price, such as for a newspaper circular. Items that have the wrong price tag or are on the wrong hook where another item should be are up to the discretion of the store if it’s an honest mistake. They don’t have to sell you squat. Of course they’re not free to bait and switch, but it comes down to intention. If you’re scanned for $19.99 and the shelf says $18.99, chances are they’ll sell it to you at that price. But if the plasma scans for $2999 and the shelf price is mistakenly $1999, they’re under no legal obligation to you. [/QUOTE] As I discovered when I worked retail, this isn’t even always the store’s fault. Sometimes one customer will move a sign out of the way to get at something behind it, and then not put the sign back, leaving it in front of some other item. Then customer #2 comes along, sees the sign sitting in front of the item _he_ wants, and reads nothing on the sign but the price, despite the fact that the sign clearly spells out the item it’s referring to. So now we’ve got a customer saying, “Well the sign was _right there_ in front of this …” I honestly had people who insisted we were trying to pull something on them, even after walking with them to the aisle where they saw the sign and pointing out that the sign clearly applies to a different item. What was funny was the way some people would grudgingly accept this, but continue to mutter about “false advertising”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/32 "2007-08-26T02:02:53Z")
[QUOTE=Balthisar] It is certainly true in America. There’s always a disclaimer for misprints if it’s an advertised price, such as for a newspaper circular. Items that have the wrong price tag or are on the wrong hook where another item should be are up to the discretion of the store if it’s an honest mistake. They don’t have to sell you squat. Of course they’re not free to bait and switch, but it comes down to intention. . [/QUOTE] Read the post: “But if you’ve got it advertised at that price you’ve got to sell it to me at that price.” If the ad is not a typo or a misprint they do indeed have to honor that price, and the scenario set up by **essell** did not say anything about the ad being a typo or a misprint just “Sorry, this item has been put out the wrong price, the actual price is £X” and “I don’t have to serve you at all. Get out.”. A retailer can’t get out of a bait and switch or deceptive advertising by ordering dudes out of their store under “We reserve the right to refuse service”. If the price has been advertised (and nothing was said about the very very \*very \*rare typo or misprint), then the retailer must honor that price. You can’t go assuming a typo if the situation _as given_ doesn’t mention such a thing. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/33 "2007-08-26T02:31:14Z")
[QUOTE=LSLGuy] Slightly funny anecdote relevant to the racist restaurant above & the Denny’s crack that followed … I ate in a Denny’s a couple weeks ago for the first time in a couple years. On the wall in the waiting area was a framed poster saying (in fine marketing-speak) essentially “You have the right to a pleasant meal & we promise to deliver.” The picture was of a smiling party of 6 being served by 2 happy servers. Lots of comfort food on the table. And all 8 of them were very, very White. Not just causcasian race, but culturally White, like Atlanta suburban White. I know Denny’s challenges were a long time ago, but still … The unstated message was stronger than the stated one. [/QUOTE] While I’m not one to defend Denny’s mostly, I think you’re being a little thin-skinned about the advertisement. Denny’s is in a sticky situation in terms of racial diversity, and I can’t see too many scenarios where you couldn’t find something to be offended about the racial make-up of a Denny’s poster: Black servers serving white family? “Nice one, Denny’s! Way to show black folks as laborers serving the whites.” White waiters serving all-black family? Far too reminiscent of the Secret Service scandal, even if it’s trying to show the opposite. An all black poster wouldn’t seem to be any better than an all white one in this circumstance, either. One or two token blacks mixed in wouldn’t seem to be anything other than.. well, adding a few tokens. I hate posters or paraphenalia where they have stuff like this. My college was overwhelmingly white, and two of my black friends (two of maybe five black kids out of 500 students) were in almost every catalogue for the school. And as far as the staff and clientele at the Denny’s I’ve been at, 8 white people seems to be a likely possibility. The really unrealistic part of that ad seems to be that I bet the customers weren’t either all old folks or stoned high school students, and the waitresses weren’t hideous ogres. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/34 "2007-08-26T03:08:44Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] A retailer can’t get out of a bait and switch or deceptive advertising by ordering dudes out of their store under “We reserve the right to refuse service”. If the price has been advertised (and nothing was said about the very very \*very \*rare typo or misprint), then the retailer must honor that price. [/QUOTE] Unless that state or municipality has a bait-and-switch statute, a retailer is not required to sell any item at the advertised price. An advertisement is not a contract offer, it is an invitation to _make_ an offer. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/35 "2007-08-26T05:46:10Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Unless that state or municipality has a bait-and-switch statute, a retailer is not required to sell any item at the advertised price. An advertisement is not a contract offer, it is an invitation to _make_ an offer. [/QUOTE] Cite? And what states don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/36 "2007-08-26T06:04:55Z")
Restatement of Contracts 2d, §26, comment b: > [@](#): > > _Advertising_. Business enterprises commonly secure general publicity for the goods or services they supply or purchase. Advertisements of goods by display, sign, handbill, newspaper, radio or television are not ordinarily intended or understood as offers to sell. The same is true of catalogues, price lists and circulars, even though the terms of suggested bargains may be stated in some detail. It is of course possible to make an offer by an advertisement directed to the general public (see §29), but there must ordinarily be some language of commitment or some invitation to take action without further recommendation. “The general rule is that an advertisement does not constitute an offer.” _Leonard v. Pepsico, Inc._, 88 F.Supp.2d 116 (S.D. N.Y. 1999). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/37 "2007-08-26T06:28:34Z")
[QUOTE=Diomedes] White waiters serving all-black family? Far too reminiscent of the Secret Service scandal, even if it’s trying to show the opposite. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t sure what scandal you were referring too–[is this it?](http://www.vdare.com/malkin/whitehouse.htm) I’m not sure I found the right story because this involved an Hispanic person, not a black person. At any rate, I also don’t see what’s so bad about showing a picture that only had white people in it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/38 "2007-08-26T06:30:47Z")
Link? And what are you citing? Some sort of law course? Or book review? 😕 Again: What states do _not_ have such laws? **Bricker** , are you out there? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/39 "2007-08-26T07:12:09Z")
I am citing [Restatement of the Law](http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/services/research/guides/united_states/basics/restatements.php) 2d of Contracts, which is a book every American lawyer is familiar with; and a federal court case, _[Leonard v. Pepsico, Inc.](http://www.law.pitt.edu/madison/contracts/supplement/leonard_v_pepsico.htm)_, for which I gave the proper legal citation. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739/40 "2007-08-26T12:44:27Z")
[QUOTE=Zoggie] I wasn’t sure what scandal you were referring too–[is this it?](http://www.vdare.com/malkin/whitehouse.htm) I’m not sure I found the right story because this involved an Hispanic person, not a black person. At any rate, I also don’t see what’s so bad about showing a picture that only had white people in it. [/QUOTE] > **[Secret Service Agents Allege Racial Bias at Denny's](http://www.nathannewman.org/EDIN/.race/.racefile/.may-june/Discrimination3/sec-serv.txt.html)** In short, a group of Secret Service agents in my old home town went to the local Denny’s. Six black agents sat together at one table, while their white colleagues sat in two or three other groups. Despite the fact that they all arrived at the same time, and were seated sequentially, the black table didn’t get the food they ordered. Other patrons, all white, came in, ordered, ate, paid their bill and left, while their food sat undelivered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-reserve-the-right-to-refuse-service/416739.md?page=3)