# We should be more worried about random violence **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775 "2011-01-16T01:30:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/1 "2011-01-16T01:30:40Z")
> [@Aggressively violent imagery - equal among both parties?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressively-violent-imagery-equal-among-both-parties/567228/10): > > I must conditionally agree here. In order to continue being the devil’s advocate, does anyone have figures on the number of shootings done in the US so far this month? Anyone have any figures of the number of multiple-victim incidents? And any real reason to categorize this one incident as being quantitatively different than any other shooting so far this year? > > I understand the politically sensitive folks see partisan politics (and their personal political bogeymen) in every situation, but as an apolitical mugwump I see another mentally unstable person shooting at a public gathering. Why is this acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/2 "2011-01-16T02:48:32Z")
If “random violence” is defined as people shooting up multiple victims they have no prior bad blood with, for any or no reason, then no, this is not particularly common. I agree that the reason this incident has gotten so much attention is because political figures were involved, though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/3 "2011-01-16T04:33:19Z")
Where in the quote that you posted in your OP does \*\*DrFidelius \*\*say that it’s “acceptable”? ---
**Author:** ![smileybastard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@smileybastard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smileybastard)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/4 "2011-01-16T04:41:16Z")
Violence is violence. Random or not is is not acceptable, but I am confused what you are asking about. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/5 "2011-01-16T05:03:08Z")
I am not really following the OP either. Truly random violence is one of the last things we should be truly worried about because it is so uncommon and there is little that can be done to stop it that doesn’t seriously impact everyone’s freedom. The TSA pisses most people off with their security theater in airports. I don’t think we want or need those types of measures in place everywhere in America and it wouldn’t stop determined and deranged people anyway. People are born. People get hurt and die in various ways, some more tragic than others but the end result is always the same. Short of locking yourself in a concrete cell 24/7 there isn’t much you can do to stop odd events from happening in a country of 300 million people from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/6 "2011-01-16T05:27:15Z")
We should be more worried about media hype and 24/7 Internet connectivity constantly drilling it into our heads making us worried about stuff that always went on but never got on the radar 20-30 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/7 "2011-01-16T05:37:45Z")
I think America accepts spree killings as the cost of our gun laws. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/8 "2011-01-16T06:24:26Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think America accepts spree killings as the cost of our gun laws. This, plus free expression, and freedom of movement, and lack of welfare state ethics which provide better financial safety nets in more socialist nations. Oh, also violent video games & heavy metal music. (Thank goodness nobody blames _those_ anymore!) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/9 "2011-01-16T08:24:55Z")
Random violence is really, really rare. From relatives in law enforcement, the rule of thumb was that for a killing, immediately assume that it was done by the surviving spouse/unmarried partner/ex-partner, or parent, or child – and you would be correct about 2/3rds of the time. You just had to gather up the evidence that would prove it. And the remaining 1/3rd of cases where the evidence didn’t confirm that, just ask those people who had been fighting with the victim lately, or who benefited by the victims death – that would give you the killer in most of the remaining cases. The cases where it was truly an unknown person killing someone at random were so rare that most officers could go their entire career without ever seeing one. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/10 "2011-01-16T14:13:53Z")
It’s “acceptable” in the sense that (arguably) trying to prevent it may not be effective and would create even more problems. Seriously, what’s a good preventative measure against the Jared Loughners of the world? Involuntary commitments and treatments of people who “act weird” ? As far as I know, Loughner had a history of incidents at his community college that describe him as disruptive, obsessive and erratic but not violent, so at what point should the intervention have happened? What’s the threshold? How many non-schizophrenics will get caught up in it, including people who are playing pranks or just having a bad day? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/11 "2011-01-16T16:49:46Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think America accepts spree killings as the cost of our gun laws. Spree killings and mass murders are hardly limited to America. > **[List of rampage killers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_murderers_and_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims)** > > This is a list of mass or spree killers. A mass murderer is typically defined as someone who kills two or more people in one incident, with no "cooling off" period, not including themselves. A mass murder typically occurs in a single location where one or more persons kill several others. > Specific notable subtypes of mass murder, including politically motivated crimes, workplace killings, school attacks and familicides, have their own lists. > This list does not include serial killers, members ... ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/12 "2011-01-16T16:52:38Z")
Outlaw handguns & he can be as weird as he wants. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/13 "2011-01-16T16:59:56Z")
[QUOTE=foolsguinea] Outlaw handguns & he can be as weird as he wants. [/QUOTE] Ah…so now the OP is clear. You wish to debate gun elimination, thinking gun control just isn’t enough. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/14 "2011-01-16T17:11:14Z")
Quoth **t-bonham** : > [@](#): > > The cases where it was truly an unknown person killing someone at random were so rare that most officers could go their entire career without ever seeing one. And of course, some of those will be cases that would have fallen into the first two categories, too, and they just weren’t able to prove it. Although you probably also need to add a category for violence committed in the process of another crime: A burglar or mugger panicking and killing the person they were robbing, say. Which still isn’t exactly “random”, but closer to it than the domestic cases. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/15 "2011-01-16T17:19:18Z")
Even if random violence was common, it is, by definition, unpredictable. So what would worrying about it exactly _do_? Anyone ever wonder if all the fear and worrying in our psyche is _part of the damn problem_? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/16 "2011-01-16T17:31:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Spree killings and mass murders are hardly limited to America. > > [List of rampage killers - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_murderers_and_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims) I didn’t say they were. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/17 "2011-01-16T17:31:30Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Why is this acceptable? Because the cure is worse than the disease. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/18 "2011-01-16T18:27:06Z")
I’d dispute the quote in the OP. This was not an act of random violence. Does anyone really think that Jared Loughner shot a bunch of random people and one of them happened to be a Congresswoman? Of course not - he chose his target. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/19 "2011-01-16T18:50:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’d dispute the quote in the OP. This was not an act of random violence. Does anyone really think that Jared Loughner shot a bunch of random people and one of them happened to be a Congresswoman? Of course not - he chose his target. One can argue the “random” element is Loughner’s delusions. He went after a congresswoman. He could as easily have shot up a McDonald’s or a school or anywhere the voices in his head told him to. I’d speculate that had the course of his illness been slightly different, he might have shot up Pima Community College (which he attended until late 2010) or someplace else, or possibly nowhere else, and exact prediction is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775/20 "2011-01-17T02:05:29Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Outlaw handguns & he can be as weird as he wants. Because he couldn’t find any of the following? M – Melee weapons, like knives, swords, spears, machetes, axes, clubs, rods, stones, or bare hands O – Any other weapons, such as bombs, hand grenades, Molotov cocktails, poison and poisonous gas, as well as vehicle and arson attacks [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-should-be-more-worried-about-random-violence/567775.md?page=2)