# "We stay in fight," says Bush (while being awarded Dumbshit of the Decade Award) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839 "2005-11-19T20:58:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/21 "2005-11-20T02:06:19Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > I find the whole US political scene quite disheartening to tell you the truth. … > > Living in Ireland I have access to all of Britain’s media, TV, radio and newspapers. > > Don’t get me wrong I’ve read and seen on US TV(I also get CNN, CNBC and to a lesser degree FOX) a lot of solid thinking debate as well but the roar from the side of shallow partisan drivel is almost deafening. > > Bush would be a joke if this wasn’t just so damn serious. … FUBAR. I’m guessing you are grateful to be where you are right now, and I don’t blame you one bit. You nailed the partisan screaming perfectly. Party before country. Agenda before country. Drag the whole place down the drain, or be labeled a craven traitor. Sick, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/22 "2005-11-20T02:19:17Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I didn’t realize the President’s fashion was cause for such animosity. You may need to calm down a little bit before you choke on all the foam spewing out of your mouth. > [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > It’s a pathetically transparent attempt to appeal to the increasingly dwindling minority of people who confuse Bush’s attempt to look “tough” or “military” with “remotely competent.” He does not look tough, he looks ridiculous like a two year old wearing daddy’s fedora and overcoat. He did not earn the right to wear those uniforms, in my book. In doing so and palying the poser, he insults all those who have worn a uniform. In callously using up the military and doing his best curtailing their benefits (VA anyone?) while letting his corporate buddies clean up (Halliburton and KBR), and while making soldiers guard these vultures, he sullies any uniform he puts on. He should be ashamed of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/23 "2005-11-20T02:28:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Is it just me, or do these “Bushisms” sound a bit too much like the ramblings of a madman??? No, it’s not just you. When you get right down to it, he effectively _is_ insane, because of the way he has always isolated himself from reality. It may be due to the solid shell of toadies, true believers and puppetmasters he has around him, instead of a brain disorder, but he is quite detached from the real world. Personally, I think he is really insane as well as effectively insane, but in practical terms it doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/24 "2005-11-20T02:30:53Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > I hate to depress you even more than you already seem to be, but President Codpiece’s “mission-accomplished” stunt took place on May 1, 2003, which is over 2 1/2 years ago. ☹ I stand corrected. And how about this for your FDA daily recommended dose of irony; I work for one of those defense contractors who turns your hard-earned tax dollars into the finest top secret flying saucer zap-it-outta-the-sky technology that never seems to work like Tom Clancy says it does. Back in '04, we were encouraged–to the point of instructed–to vote for Bush out of fears that the leading brand would slash defense budgets. Now that we’re pouring a steady stream of cash into a hole in the desert, guess what they’re doing to development budgets? As Nelson would say, “Ha ha!” 'Cept now I have to go find another job. :eek: :dubious: ☹🆒😕 :smack: 😛 Stranger ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/25 "2005-11-20T04:03:09Z")
Good rant: factual and hard-hitting. However, > [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > You’re a half-wit former coked-up alcoholic frat boy who has attained the rank of chief exec by name recognition, family connections, and blatant exploitation of peoples’ fears and illusions. …also because Gore blew it and Kerry wasn’t good enough. > [@](#): > > Any military excursion always requires an exit strategy, i.e. definition of goals, metrics of quantifying success, and a strategic and logistical plan for extraction. That doesn’t apply to WWII, where the motto was, “Victory by any means necessary”. Besides, do you really believe they don’t have back-up plan for withdrawal? What’s he supposed to say, “My fellow Americans, relax, we leave anytime we feel like it”? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/26 "2005-11-20T04:33:47Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > That doesn’t apply to WWII, where the motto was, “Victory by any means necessary”. Bad analogy. Japan attacked the US first, and if Germany had been permitted to over-run Europe they could have posed a genuine threat to the US: in any case, all moral arguments set aside, the US couldn’t permit all of Europe to be turned into the armed camp of an expansionist loony. The Iraqis, on the other hand, had WMD’s. Somewhere. That they could have used. We’re looking hard, and they’re around here. And they harboured terrorists. And Saddam was a bastard. Still looking for those WMD’s…looking… Wait, what’s that over there? Look! Freedom And Democracy! > [@](#): > > Besides, do you really believe they don’t have back-up plan for withdrawal? Yes. Here’s where your WWII analogy is apt: the Bush administration talked themselves into believing that they would be greeted like GI’s liberating France, with laughing children strewing rose petals in front of their jeeps. Shoot a few hard-liners, maybe, establish a compliant government, awards his mates a few fat oil and construction contracts, and Bob’s yer uncle. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/27 "2005-11-20T04:42:59Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Besides, do you really believe they don’t have back-up plan for withdrawal? What’s he supposed to say, “My fellow Americans, relax, we leave anytime we feel like it”? I doubt Bush and friends have any intention of _ever_ withdrawing, even now. Why else build those bases ? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/28 "2005-11-20T04:50:30Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Besides, do you really believe they don’t have back-up plan for withdrawal? A back-up plan? You’re shitting me. You need TWO plans for one to be a back-up, and I’m not convinced they have ONE. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/29 "2005-11-20T05:14:49Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > …also because Gore blew it and Kerry wasn’t good enough. You forgot “Clinton got a blow job”. Get with plan already. :wally ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/30 "2005-11-20T05:19:09Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Besides, do you really believe they don’t have back-up plan for withdrawal? Doesn’t that require a plan first? As far as I can tell, the Bush Plan for Iraq seems to be. 1.)Invade Iraq 2.)??? 3.)Democracy in Iraq! Maybe the new plan is… 1.)Stay the Course 2.)??? 3.)Democracy in Iraq! [sub](fixed coding. – Uke)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/31 "2005-11-20T05:40:36Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > …also because Gore blew it and Kerry wasn’t good enough. Well, that’s the shameful truth; as incompetent as Bush is, he still has greater appeal than the competition. I can’t say I had much stomach for Gore. Kerry lost himself by not responding forcefully to offensively absurd claims about his service and patriotism; if he’d used a few of the choice words that his wife offered up to critics, he might have been far better for it. > [@New Iskander](#): > > That doesn’t apply to WWII, where the motto was, “Victory by any means necessary”. Well, yes and no. Roosevelt continually entertained the notion that we wouldn’ t be able to defeat the Germans, and had the Operation Overload landings failed it would have entailed a permanent stalemate. And as far as rebuilding and reestablishing goverments in post-war Europe there were many discussions; the Yalta Conference was primarily concerned with the division of responsibility in post-war Europe. In comparison, it has been clear from the word go that the current Administration has had only the vaguest plans for reconstruction, establishment of a goverment, monetary system, protection of infrastructure, and appearently no consideration for the amount of continual resistance we have observed. Bush might have been able to appreciate this a little better if he’d actually, you know, served in that Southeast Asian conflict he went to great pains to avoid, or even stayed awake in history class. > [@New Iskander](#): > > Besides, do you really believe they don’t have back-up plan for withdrawal? What’s he supposed to say, “My fellow Americans, relax, we leave anytime we feel like it”? I can’t see that they have much of a primary plan, much less a back-up, and the rejection and probably censure of Pentagon officials who are preparing for the eventuality of withdrawl indicates a head-in-sand attitude that seeks to reject the possibility. This wouldn’t be half as irritating if this indefinite occupation had been the plan all along–as it should have been with regard to the decision to engage in this endeavor–but the whole effort started with claims that we’d be in and out before Jack Robinson could take a breath. Remember Rummy and his “lightning invasion” that eschewed logistics and supply lines (causing experienced military commanders to shake their heads) and promising that we’d be in and out in “a month”. This is the talk of a guy who lives in an environment defined by Tom Clancy novels. And given the fact that there was no immediate and compelling reason to engage in war to begin with–despite claims, Iraq presented no immediate and persistant danger to the US, our allies, or even the bordering nations–thre’s really no excuse for not having a plan and contingencies. And if we sincerelly believed that Iraq had effective battlefield chemical and biological weapons, does it really make sense to send troops in and have them exposed in any but the most dire of circumstances, of which this was not. I’m not intrinsically anti-Bush; if he’d just bumbled along for eight years in a marginally competent fashion like his predecessor, snorting coke and getting the occasional blowjob from an intern, I’d be fairly indifferent. But watching the progression of this war in combination with the vacilliation and rationalization, plus the McCarthy-esque veiled threats and accusations (“If you’re not with us, you’re against us”) is enough to make even the most politicallly apathetic of citizens (“Hi, Mom!”) disgusted and revolted. If you want to fleece the public treasury, meh…it’s become the norm. But don’t treat me like I’m some idiot that can’t figure out what you’re up to. It irritated me about Clinton, but he wasn’t engaging us in massive overseas military adventurism. It positively angers me with Bush and Co. There’s this scene in the documentary [The Fog of War](http://imdb.com/title/tt0317910/), where Morris plays a tape of a phone conversation of Robert McNamara trying to advise Johnson on Vietnam. “We need an exit strategy…a way to get out,” he attempts to plead, in between Johnson’s heedless complaints that McNamara and Kennedy had discussed plans for extraction. “I thought it was bad, psychologically, to talk about getting out of there,” he railroads over McNamara’s attempts to speak. We’re not privy to Bush’s discussions with advisors, but we can see the same results, the same mistakes, the same resignation of good advisors (Colin Powell) to be replaced by Yes Men. _sigh_ Oh, the irony…the goggles do nothing. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/32 "2005-11-20T05:49:07Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Besides, do you really believe they don’t have back-up plan for withdrawal? What’s he supposed to say, “My fellow Americans, relax, we leave anytime we feel like it”? They certainly didn’t have a backup plan when the rose throwing thing didn’t work out. Besides, anyone who would even admit there was a possibility that we’d “cut and run” would get fired. Remember how they totally ignored the State Department experts on nation building. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/33 "2005-11-20T06:33:00Z")
I think there certainly will be a significant reduction of troops in Iraq next year. Funny sounds coming out of DC indicate struggle who’s going to take most credit for it. There will be another significant troops reduction in 2008. 50-60,000 contingent probably will remain in Iraq for many years, no matter who’s the Prez. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/34 "2005-11-20T06:50:22Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > I think there certainly will be a significant reduction of troops in Iraq next year. Funny sounds coming out of DC indicate struggle who’s going to take most credit for it. There will be another significant troops reduction in 2008. 50-60,000 contingent probably will remain in Iraq for many years, no matter who’s the Prez. That’d be my guess as well. Another South Korea with a permanent, “non-aggressive” presence. The complicating factor is that there is no defined border, no barrier from insurgence and aggression. At this point, though, it would be at least as irresponsible to talk about complete abandonment as it was to engage in this disaster in the first place. The best we can do is to mitigate the worst and hope that the situation doesn’t unravel like a ball of yarn in the clutches of a kitten. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/35 "2005-11-20T06:51:57Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > You know most people didn’t expect American democracy to work out that well, either. And it didn’t for awhile, it took about 15 years. I think some of us are being a bit unrealistic about what it takes to make democracy works. We’re not even at year 5 yet, and it’s going to be year 10 before things are close to where they need to be. Great, so we might get to stay even longer! > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > …Yeah, and that worked out so well because Saddam didn’t you know, kill tons of his own civilians right after Gulf War I… And just what did we do to stop him? > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > …because they thought the U.S. would help them overthrow the man who made them live in hell for the last 20 years… Yeah 'cause we were sooo tough on him when gassed the Kurds and the Iranians and…oh yeah, that’s right, we didn’t give a single shit about that, of course it was great to have an ace in the hole when when we WANTED to play it! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/36 "2005-11-20T06:53:41Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > I think there certainly will be a significant reduction of troops in Iraq next year. Funny sounds coming out of DC indicate struggle who’s going to take most credit for it. There will be another significant troops reduction in 2008. 2006 and 2008? Those are election years! What a funny coincidence. I’m sure this will be because there have been major milestones, not a shameless “please don’t hate us, it’s working” ploy. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/37 "2005-11-20T12:41:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > 2006 and 2008? Those are election years! What a funny coincidence. I’m sure this will be because there have been major milestones, not a shameless “please don’t hate us, it’s working” ploy. Yeah right. I see this the same way. Any slim thread that can be spun as a “success” wil be proclaimed by the Republicans as a rousing victory - Headline screams “Only 5000 killed today, less than the of 4900 yesterday! Peace is at hand!”. Any failures or setbacks will be blamed on the usual suspects - liberals, Democrats, freedom haters, America haters, and the new improved catchphrases such as “craven givers of aid and comfor to the enemy”. Plus, plenty of personal attacks and accusations, and more “trust me”. Timing these supposed milestones with election years is so transparent as to be an insult to our intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/38 "2005-11-20T14:18:15Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Nod nod. In short, he is saying Keep doing it even though it’s a total disaster. Yep. Jesus is coming. Look busy. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/39 "2005-11-20T14:25:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yep. Jesus is coming. Look busy. Didn’t he say something about going out as a lamb and coming back as a lion? It would get ugly, and surprise a lot of people. Borrowing from their own imagery of an avenging Jesus, wading in blood and destroying the wicked, picture this: He comes back with a huge Conan type sword, while roaring “You did what in my name?!?!” ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839/40 "2005-11-21T01:42:00Z")
My mission is to succeed. I know know my mission is over when I have succeeded. Why can’t you liberals understand this? -Joe, duh [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-stay-in-fight-says-bush-while-being-awarded-dumbshit-of-the-decade-award/331839.md?page=3)