# We, the People, are not serious about banning smoking. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444 "2005-01-30T17:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/21 "2005-01-30T18:44:43Z")
> [@LucyInDisguise](#): > > Read my other post if my motives still don’t make sense. 🙂 It makes sense all right , but just like the MADD people and others , the emotional baggage is just too formulaic. You won’t take this too personally I hope , but I am not wishing you luck in your quest to make a better world. Declan ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/22 "2005-01-30T18:45:00Z")
> [@LucyInDisguise](#): > > I’m just searching (somewhat desperately) to find a way, any way, to make it tougher to keep it out of the hands of our children, our grandchildren, and the grandchildren of our grandchildren. Why is it, any time someone wants to overtax or outlaw something, it always turns into some sort of “Holy crap what about the children” ??? It’s a given that tobacco and liquor and many other things are already heavily taxed. These taxes are quite often the result of “What about the children.” Thes taxes were shilled as a way to improve schools, create after school activities, etc. Where did all those millions of dollars in excise and morality taxes go??? “What about the children” does not wash any more. It’s too Rob Reiner, too Soccer Mom. ---
**Author:** ![sweetfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@sweetfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweetfreak)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/23 "2005-01-30T18:48:29Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Why is it, any time someone wants to overtax or outlaw something, it always turns into some sort of > > “Holy crap what about the children” > > ??? > > It’s a given that tobacco and liquor and many other things are already heavily taxed. These taxes are quite often the result of > > “What about the children.” > > Thes taxes were shilled as a way to improve schools, create after school activities, etc. Where did all those millions of dollars in excise and morality taxes go??? > > “What about the children” does not wash any more. It’s too Rob Reiner, too Soccer Mom. Well, Hillary Clinton was wrong. It does **not** take a village to raise a child. Why am I not surprised? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/24 "2005-01-30T18:48:47Z")
Well you give a feel for motive but don’t really state an objective other than their complete elimination. Citing actual tobacco related death/injury rates rather than personal examples might make your motives appear more broad. 🙂 [American Lung Association on cancer&smoking](http://www.alahv.org/bookfiles4/lung_cancer.html) [Centre for Disease Control on ciigarette related diseases&death](http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequences/mortali.htm) Now do you think those numbers can be eliminated or do you accept a certain level of human foolishness and frailty? ---
**Author:** ![LucyInDisguise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucyindisguise/32/18064_2.png) [@LucyInDisguise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LucyInDisguise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/25 "2005-01-30T18:53:02Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The key word is is “choice”. They CHOSE to smoke. No one was forcing cigarettes into anyone’s mouths … Not physically, no. No one held a gun to my head. I made the choice to start. I was eleven years old. I had the Marlboro Man to look up to. Nearly everyone in the movies smoked. It was the 🆒 thing to do … all my friends were starting. My mom and Dad smoked. My older sister smoked. I could go on for hours. Not going to … Deception can be viewed as \*a form of \* coersion. “They” (whoever “they” are …) continue to deceive. Go see a movie and tell me it isn’t still going on … ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/26 "2005-01-30T18:58:19Z")
> [@LucyinDisguise](#): > > We, the People, are not serious about banning smoking. How right you are. Now, um, who’s ever suggested that Us the People were ever serious about banning smoking? The fact that something is dumb and harmful doesn’t mean it should be illegal. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![sweetfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@sweetfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweetfreak)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/27 "2005-01-30T19:01:55Z")
> [@LucyInDisguise](#): > > Not physically, no. > > No one held a gun to my head. I made the choice to start. I was eleven years old. I had the Marlboro Man to look up to. Nearly everyone in the movies smoked. It was the 🆒 thing to do … all my friends were starting. My mom and Dad smoked. My older sister smoked. I could go on for hours. Not going to … > > Deception can be viewed as \*a form of \* coersion. > > “They” (whoever “they” are …) continue to deceive. Go see a movie and tell me it isn’t still going on … I started smoking at the age of 14, I believe it was. As an adult, I still do. However, I do not blame anyone else because I do. I chose to smoke. Sure, I was naive at 14, didn’t quite know what I was doing. I used the same argument you are using right now (on a different topic), but the same argument, nonetheless. People are easily deceived, people are stupid, that was my argument. But, that’s not placing much value on a human intellect, is it? Give people more credit. As far as kids, teenagers…who needs to steer them in the right direction? The parents, not the media, not the government. But once they become an adult, they need to start thinking for themselves. As I have done, and as I hope other adults will do. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/28 "2005-01-30T19:12:42Z")
And I guess I should say welcome to the StraightDope, **LucyInDisguise**. You picked a touchy subject for your OP, hope you don’t get sore when it gets prickly. 🙂 BTW, I started smoking at 19 yrs old while at University (or rather at the bars at the University). Smoked a pack/day for about 10 years and quit about 3 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/29 "2005-01-30T19:18:35Z")
> [@LucyInDisguise](#): > > I had the Marlboro Man to look up to. Cigarettes are not advertised on TV (or radio, I think) anymore. In case you haven’t noticed, things are such that cigarette companies are now forced to cut into their revenues by making ads about how bad smoking is. I doubt they accomplish anything beyond irritating people, but still. > [@](#): > > Nearly everyone in the movies smoked. They don’t anymore. When people do smoke in movies, they’re usually either stressed or evil. Kids are just not surrounded by people smoking to look cool anymore. > [@](#): > > It was the 🆒 thing to do … all my friends were starting. My mom and Dad smoked. My older sister smoked. I could go on for hours. Not going to … Please do go on. I’m curious how many other people you can blame for your mistakes. > [@](#): > > Make it a felony. > With mandatory jail time. > And HUGE fines. For a behavior that is harmful ONLY to oneself and nobody else? This idea is deranged. Think about the enforcement! You’d have to have cops looking out for underaged people smoking (and eventually, just watching for smoking). You’d have to pay for more cops, and arrests, and court cases. So now you’re not just creating bad legislation and punishing smokers to an absurd degree, you’re making your fellow citizens pay for it. And this is for a crime against no one. > [@](#): > > Once it is proven how well this works, we should probably consider doing the same thing with booze, slowly phasing it out over several decades. And then loud music, and fatty foods, and chocolate, gum chewing, sleeveless shirts… anything else bugging you today? I’m sure we could improve society substantially if we just ban enough things. > [@](#): > > Prohibition did not work when it was tried because the method was seriously flawed. Ya just can’t get that many people to quit cold turkey at the same time. That’s not the only reason Prohibition failed. Other reasons included organized crime and the fact that _people didn’t want to stop drinking just because somebody told them to._ Not just alcoholics, regular, everyday people who just wanted the right to have a drink now and then. And this is yet another problem with your suggestion of punishing smokers with serious jail time. It doesn’t differentiate between someone who does it often and someone who smokes now and then, which is also ridiculous. > [@](#): > > because society needs to be weaned off of such things. Who put you in charge, and who gave you the knowledge of what society needs to ingest, digest and inhale? You weaned yourself off smoking, be satisfied with that. ---
**Author:** ![LucyInDisguise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucyindisguise/32/18064_2.png) [@LucyInDisguise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LucyInDisguise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/30 "2005-01-30T19:24:27Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well you give a feel for motive but don’t really state an objective other than their complete elimination … > > … Now do you think those numbers can be eliminated or do you accept a \*\*certain level of human foolishness \*\* and frailty? Let me take 'em in reverse order. Yes. Absolutely. As I said in a previous post, it’s kinda like the helmet law and seatbelt debate. Once you have sufficient information to make a choice, then do whatcha gotta do … You are **all** right about one thing. I concede the point that the title of this thread is inflammatory and misleading… A total ban on anything would not only be impractical, but unenforceable as well … look how the whole ‘war on drugs’ thing has turned out … however, does this mean that we should not make some attempt to reduce the numbers of children being misled into believing that this habit is cool and easily kicked later? Someone else (I think it was SteveG1) said something about the taxes – It ain’t about taxes – was never about taxes – and > [@](#): > > “What about the children” does not wash any more. It’s too Rob Reiner, too Soccer Mom. If it ain’t about the children, who is it about? I don’t care if you smoke. I don’t care if any other adult smokes. Just don’t want my grandchildren to have to be faced with dealing with this or any other addiction … and sweetfreak … ‘Love ya’ kid — you are so right about it being the parent’s responsibility to guide their children safely into adulthood. Unfortunately, as I’m certain you are all to aware, far too many parents have abdicated this responsibilty. Trying to brainstorm a way around this obstacle to reason. CarnalK … thanks for the words of encouragement. Believing but still have doubt that I’m gonna make it out three years … and don’t worry – been around long enough to have a hide as thick as a planet. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/31 "2005-01-30T19:40:43Z")
> [@LucyInDisguise](#): > > The issue of restricting access is not related to free choice when many years of deliberate deception by corporate executives in the persuit of the almighty buck is what got so many people addicted to tobacco products to begin with. Tobacco has been grown in North America by colonist long before the formation of the United States. Did the tobacco companies lie about their products? Sure, but we’ve had a few hundred years of growing tobacco and smoking, chewing, or sniffing it prior to those executives lying. Placing all the blame on the companies is a bit off. > [@](#): > > I, and every one of the smokers with whom I’ve had this discussion with, when pressed to reveal their honest opinions, all believe and agree with the fact that had we been mature and educated enough before gaining access to cigarettes, in other words if we had had time to develop our “own sense of value and responsible behavior”, we would have exercised our free choice not to start. We were denied the information needed to make the choice freely. (Please pardon that horribly run-on, comma-spliced sentence …) My father, my mother, and my sister were all smokers and yet somehow I didn’t start up. Kids make stupid decisions but don’t go blaming that on the tobacco companies. It was your decision. Marc ---
**Author:** ![ninetypercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@ninetypercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ninetypercent)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/32 "2005-01-30T19:41:17Z")
I love your plan. It will give me time to stock up on a million or so pounds of tobacco to sell on the blackmarket at outrageously inflated prices. Perfect! ---
**Author:** ![LucyInDisguise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucyindisguise/32/18064_2.png) [@LucyInDisguise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LucyInDisguise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/33 "2005-01-30T19:52:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Please do go on. I’m curious how many other people you can blame for your mistakes. I initially took this as a personal attack, but on reflection I can see where it might be misconstrued. Please do not confuse a list of reasons/influences with excuses. I have never tried to excuse my decision to smoke, or blame anyone else. I lit that first cigarette with my own hands. And the one after that. And … > [@Marley23](#): > > For a behavior that is harmful ONLY to oneself and nobody else? This idea is deranged. Deranged? Have you heard about second-hand smoke? > [@Marley23](#): > > Think about the enforcement! You’d have to have cops looking out for underaged people smoking (and eventually, just watching for smoking). You’d have to pay for more cops, and arrests, and court cases. So now you’re not just creating bad legislation and punishing smokers to an absurd degree, you’re making your fellow citizens pay for it. True. I agree. That part, as well as others, was not well thought out. Sometimes I do write with my emotions fully engaged. (At times, even fully enraged … it may be because I’m only human. But then, sometimes, I _can_ be a jerk.) Suggestions? Uhhh, make that constructive suggestions … 😃 Not going to address the balance of your post. It appears to me to be a wee bit emotionally biased. That’s okay, though. I get angry about what I initailly percieve to be stupid stuff, too, from time to time. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LucyInDisguise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucyindisguise/32/18064_2.png) [@LucyInDisguise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LucyInDisguise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/34 "2005-01-30T20:00:48Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > I love your plan. It will give me time to stock up on a million or so pounds of tobacco to sell on the blackmarket at outrageously inflated prices. Perfect! It may be that someone’s gonna guess the ulterior motive and ruin my plan to dominate the world market in tobacco so I can get some of my money back … Nahhhh. That would be astronomically unlikely :dubious: Damn. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/35 "2005-01-30T20:06:29Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Almost nobody wants to outright ban smoking. I don’t think there would be much point in doing so. It’s already been so marginalized, and there are so few places where smoking is allowed, that the only smoking that such a law would target takes place inside people’s homes, and I don’t think most people would stand for that kind of law. At least I hope so, or is the War On Tobacco going to be the next boondoggle? ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/36 "2005-01-30T20:13:55Z")
> [@LucyInDisguise](#): > > I don’t care if any other adult smokes. But in your OP you said you would ban smoking by legal adults, one year at a time. > [@](#): > > Just don’t want my grandchildren to have to be faced with dealing with this or any other addiction … I know you. You’re the woman who’s trying to carpet the playground with Nerf and take away timed SATs. People have to deal with a lot of shit in their lives. Pain, failure, addictions… these are not things to be shielded from like scared little babies. They are things to be faced up to. You must not have a lot of faith in your grandchildren, if you are so sure that they’d make the wrong decision that you want to take away the possibility that they might make the right one. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/37 "2005-01-30T20:16:57Z")
Frankly, it’s not the role of government to tell grownups that they may not smoke. Our country, given a choice, tends to opt for freedom over safety. And the government hauls in too much money at every step of the tobacco growing, manufacturing and selling stage to realistically turn off the money tap. That said, Big Tobacco gets too much of a free skate when it comes to the costs of medical treatment for smoking-related ailments. I think all tobacco companies should kick in for a medcal verson of Superfund and pay a fair and realistic share of those costs. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/38 "2005-01-30T20:44:07Z")
> [@LucyInDisguise](#): > > I initially took this as a personal attack, but on reflection I can see where it might be misconstrued. Sorry, yes- that’s not how I intended it. > [@](#): > > Please do not confuse a list of reasons/influences with excuses. I have never tried to excuse my decision to smoke, or blame anyone else. I lit that first cigarette with my own hands. And the one after that. And … It’s a fine line, and you did list a lot of reasons/influences. > [@](#): > > Deranged? Have you heard about second-hand smoke? Not everyone who smokes exposes others to second-hand smoke, and while I’d like to see specific figures, the impression I get from past debates on this site is that as a health risk, second-hand smoke is overhyped. > [@](#): > > Not going to address the balance of your post. It appears to me to be a wee bit emotionally biased. That’s okay, though. I get angry about what I initailly percieve to be stupid stuff, too, from time to time. 😃 I’d be much happier if you did address it, because that’s why I wrote it. I’m not into this debate emotionally - _you_ are. I think banning smoking is an awful idea, but I’m passive about it because I’m not concerned it’s going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![ninetypercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@ninetypercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ninetypercent)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/39 "2005-01-30T20:48:01Z")
> [@LucyInDisguise](#): > > It may be that someone’s gonna guess the ulterior motive and ruin my plan to dominate the world market in tobacco so I can get some of my money back … > > Nahhhh. That would be astronomically unlikely :dubious: > Damn. 😃 Damnit, Lucy! You’ve completely ruined my sarcastic reply. _lights another marlboro_ ---
**Author:** ![LucyInDisguise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucyindisguise/32/18064_2.png) [@LucyInDisguise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LucyInDisguise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444/40 "2005-01-30T20:55:03Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > I know you. You’re the \*\*woman \*\* who’s … If you knew me (even a little bit), or taken the time to actually read what I’ve written, you’d know that _my wife_ would probably be suprised to discover that. (It’s gettin so it’s not safe to \*assume \* anything around here … 😃 ) > [@continuity eror](#): > > People have to deal with a lot of shit in their lives. Pain, failure, addictions… these are not things to be shielded from like scared little babies. They are things to be faced up to. You must not have a lot of faith in your grandchildren, if you are so sure that they’d make the wrong decision that you want to take away the possibility that they might make the right one. True. People \*\*do \*\* have to deal with a lot, and make decisions. As a proud grandfather I do trust in their parents’ ability to give them good decision making skills. Yet, I can not guarantee that they will use those skills … Besides, I’m just hoping for a world where this is one decision they won’t _have_ to make … I prefer they exercise those skills deciding which college will provide the best opportunies for learning … 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-the-people-are-not-serious-about-banning-smoking/287444.md?page=3)