# "We want more married families! Now give us money"- the Gubmint **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828 "2002-04-04T18:24:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/1 "2002-04-04T18:24:52Z")
My first year of marriage, my taxes were so bad _simply because I got married_ that **Microbug** and I ended up on the front page of the local rag. This year, they’re worse: $2500 is what we owe, just 'cause we got married. I mean it- we figured out our taxes based on being married and then again as single- and the difference is $2500. I thought the administration wanted more family values? Here’s a fucking clue, oh Federal Government and the Bush Administration: **If you want “family values”, and more married families, at the very LEAST make it in our economic best interest to stay married!** Divorce looks better and better, every April 15th. Hell, I’m still paying off _last year’s_ taxes! :rolleyes: /end of lame rant. Sorry it wasn’t better, I’m still a little baffled by the dichotomy. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/2 "2002-04-04T18:48:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lightnin’ \* > \*\*I thought the administration wanted more family values? > > \*\* They do want family values and they got it. Specifically, they value your family at $2500 more than when you and your SO were single. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/3 "2002-04-04T18:51:14Z")
Yeah, but they did send you that nifty $500 rebate check, right? See, they really are on your side. (Oh wait, that check gets deducted from my refund? Oh, sorry. Never mind.) Seriously though, This is another reason why I don’t understand the administration being against gay marraige. Look at all the money you are missing out on. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/4 "2002-04-04T22:17:27Z")
I agree that married people should be allowed to file separately if they wish. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/5 "2002-04-04T22:42:14Z")
Two striking aspects: [list=1] [li]Despite all the foo-fah over Bush’s tax cut and tax reform, it does not eliminate the marriage penalty. It will just reduce it somewhat. (And there’s a good chance the marriage penalty may will be taken away before it’s fully in place.)[/li][li]There’s a huge fuss over ending the marriage penalty, but nobody warned us when it was being implemented. I remember a time when filing jointly was neutral or an advantage. (Still the case for NJ state tax.) Does anyone even know when the marriage penalty was put into the federal income tax?[/li][/list=1] ---
**Author:** ![Macro\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Macro\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macro_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/6 "2002-04-04T22:55:35Z")
Yeah, but you a $600 TAX CREDIT for every little ankle-biter you have. So ideally you should have 10 kids and no spouse. How’s that for family values. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/7 "2002-04-04T23:22:01Z")
On the gay-marriage thing: Some lesbian friends of mine were bemoaning the fact that they couldn’t get married, legally. My question was, “Why the hell would you WANT to?” The only benefit they could really think of that couldn’t be done in some other manner was job benefits- and we worked for a company that allowed partners/roommates to be designated as beneficiaries. **Microbug** and I can’t even get a divorce and go back to living in sin- the IRS would still insist that we’re still married, and must file as such. Maybe when I get home I’ll dig out and post the irritating letter Phil Gramm sent us, saying basically, “That’s just the way it is, deal. Vote for me.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/8 "2002-04-05T05:50:49Z")
As a single person, mind you, I can see the value of a marriage penalty. Two people sharing a living space and property will have more available cash than a single person doing the same, and, ideally, it’s better to take disposable income than grocery money. Fair? Perhaps no. But I didn’t get no refund check, neither. ---
**Author:** ![Caught\_Work](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Caught\_Work](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caught_Work)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/9 "2002-04-05T05:57:59Z")
Man your tax laws are weird. In Oz, you pay tax on your income and your income alone. Has nothing to do with the missus and whether you’re married or not. Come to a better tax system, come and live Down Under. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/10 "2002-04-05T06:30:58Z")
From what I understand, the idea was to allow a couple to file as one person to save some money. At the time the idea was implemented, most couples had one member that made the vast majority of the income (the guy) and one that made a few extra bucks (the girl). Since then, more couples have had two real wage earners, causing this to become a penalty, rather than a benefit. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/11 "2002-04-05T06:38:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Come to a better tax system, come and live Down Under. WHAT?!? And face the ungodly horror of your backwards-flushing toilets?!? No thanks!! ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/12 "2002-04-05T10:31:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\* > WHAT?!? And face the ungodly horror of your backwards-flushing toilets?!? No thanks!! \*\* There’s machines to fix that, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Another\_Primate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Another\_Primate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Another_Primate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/13 "2002-04-05T11:02:10Z")
Married people can file separately, but the rates are higher than for a single person. My second husband and I paid extra taxes (over his filing as single and my filing as head of household) to the tune of $1000 to $2200. (Yes, I was sick enough to figure the taxes both ways… ) When my third husband asked me to marry him, I figured the difference between the marriage penalty and the cost of health insurance, before saying “yes”. (We were already living together, and he had no health insurance, which drove me nuts because he was self-employed and did dangerous work.) Wouldn’t you know it… three months later, the corporation I work for decided to cover “domestic partners”. We decided to get divorced Nov. 30, and I considered going to Mexico in order to finalize the divorce before the end of the year. We didn’t do that, because it required both parties, and we were afraid that we’d not survive a two-day-drive together :eek: So, filed our paperword a week later and was shocked to get the decree in the mailbox two days later! Whoo-hoo! (No children in common, no property in common, no disputes, signed by both of us…) Saved me thousands. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/14 "2002-04-05T12:05:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Another Primate \* > **my third husband > … > We decided to get divorced…** [minor hijack] Having trouble finding a good fit? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/15 "2002-04-05T17:32:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Caught@Work \* > \*\*Man your tax laws are weird. > In Oz, you pay tax on your income and your income alone. > Has nothing to do with the missus and whether you’re married or not. > Come to a better tax system, come and live Down Under. \*\* You know, **Caught@Work**? I wouldn’t mind moving to Australia. Oz seems like a nice enough place- the people are friendly, you’ve all got That Accent, and the terrain seems remarkably varied. It’s kinda like one big Texas. Except… _Every frickin’ animal’s out to kill you people!_ I mean, my God, man- everything seems to be poisonous! Hell, even one of your (psuedo) mammals has poisonous spurs on its elbows! Don’t get me wrong- I’m a bit of a nature freak. I go kayaking. I go mountain climbing. I like to camp with only the clothes on my back. But the idea of walking around Australia just _terrifies_ me! I’d be a walking cloud of Raid, just kill the damn spiders! ---
**Author:** ![Merlot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3e96dc/32.png) [@Merlot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merlot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/16 "2002-04-05T18:12:48Z")
Buy a house! ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/17 "2002-04-05T19:03:21Z")
I DID! I shudder to think what the taxes’d be like if we didn’t have the house. My point still stands, though- since a single taxpayer could also buy a house, and get the same tax break. ---
**Author:** ![Merlot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3e96dc/32.png) [@Merlot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merlot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/18 "2002-04-05T19:19:15Z")
Have a kid! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Another\_Primate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Another\_Primate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Another_Primate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/19 "2002-04-08T00:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beelzebubba \* > \*\* > [minor hijack] > Having trouble finding a good fit? 😃 \*\* Ain’t that the truth! 13 years, 6.5 years, then less than 3 years – I’m going downhill here… by the time I’m seventy, I suppose I’ll be down to two-day marriages… ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-want-more-married-families-now-give-us-money-the-gubmint/101828/20 "2002-04-08T01:00:06Z")
Liz Taylor? Is that you?