# "We were at war, I did my part" (to pad my pension and abuse the system). **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379 "2003-05-20T20:33:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/21 "2003-05-21T21:38:28Z")
Apart from the conclusory allegation, does the OP have any actual evidence that the officer in question didn’t work those hours? There was a year in which I billed 5,359 hours. That amounts to roughly the same work the officer charged this year. While it was not an experience I care to repeat (or a job I’d ever return to), all those hours were actual work. Nor, I might add, was it aerobic exercise type work, so my waistline grew during that year. Would the OP care to offer some evidence to support his now-baseless assertion? ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/22 "2003-05-22T03:15:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **You are truly a moron, John.** …and you are still the epitome of tact and class. You’re like **handy** with a chip on his shoulder and a meth addiction. You DO realize that a shitload of NY and NJ folks RETIRED after 2002 since their pension was based on the number of hours worked in their LAST on-duty year? Here’s a cite for you: [http://student-voices.org/news/index.php3?NewsID=1889](http://student-voices.org/news/index.php3?NewsID=1889) You are truly a Monty, **monty**. The OP raises a valid point. You attack the guy that spotted the gilded herring. Keep up the good work. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/23 "2003-05-22T04:11:05Z")
Just for entertainment value, stockton, try having a valid point for a change. Your pal Johnny there was making aspersions against certain police officers because he just doesn’t like the agency they’re part of. Did you get that or do I have to translate it inot dumbass for you? ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/24 "2003-05-22T23:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vibrotronica \* > So, if you just put the words “free market” in front of it, it makes everything OK? Well, based on your knee-jerk Enron, Worldcom, AA _contibution_, I’ll bet it’s a fairly safe assumption that if you put the words state-run, government agency, centralized or public in front of “it”, everything just comes up roses. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > You are truly a moron, John. Peace officers are police officers. Hie ye to a dictionary of the English language instead of whatever it is you’re using now > …Johnny there was making aspersions against certain police officers because he just doesn’t like the agency they’re part of… Hi ye to the nearest reading comprehension class. > [@](#): > > The PA officers, and to a greater extent, the TBTA (Triboro Bridge & Tunnel Authority) officers I see on a daily basis really don’t do much in the way of **traditional, life-threatening** police work. Guns & Holsters don’t make cops, the duties they perform do. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > Apart from the conclusory allegation, does the OP have any actual evidence that the officer in question didn’t work those hours? > > There was a year in which I billed 5,359 hours. That amounts to roughly the same work the officer charged this year. While it was not an experience I care to repeat (or a job I’d ever return to), all those hours were actual work. Nor, I might add, was it aerobic exercise type work, so my waistline grew during that year. > > Would the OP care to offer some evidence to support his now-baseless assertion? Maybe my math’s innacurate, but: 3,737 Overtime Hours +1,960 Regular Hours (52 weeks - 3 Vacation x 40hrs) =5,697 Total Hours Worked - 5,359 Your Billed Hours from that dreadful year = 338 More hours by Fabiszak than yourself. Now 338 hours isn’t alot in the grand sceme of the universe, but it’s more hours than the average person does in 7 weeks. I have no evidence the officer in question didn’t _work_ those hours…but I see nowhere that I claimed he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/25 "2003-05-23T00:28:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnBckWLD \* > I have no evidence the officer in question didn’t _work_ those hours…but I see nowhere that I claimed he didn’t. > [@](#): > > Who the hell supervises these people? There’s no way Officer Fabiszak worked 3,737 hours of overtime. Anyone who actually “worked” that much OT couldn’t have a 50" waistline. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/26 "2003-05-23T01:29:50Z")
You’re still evidencing your stupidity, Johnbo. Those folks with the badges and weapons _and the police powers granted them by the appropriate legislature_ are, in fact, police officers. What’s the next installment of your dictionary? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/27 "2003-05-23T01:55:48Z")
What the bridge officers do: > [@](#): > > [At the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels, the Bayonne, Goethals, George Washington Bridges, and the Outerbridge Crossing, the Port Authority Police Officers’ duties are patrol, traffic control, hazardous cargo inspections, truck weigh and emergency services, as well as enforcement for violations of motor vehicle laws. Police at these crossings have also instituted programs that maintain a constant campaign against drunk driving.](http://www.panynj.gov/pap/long_history3.html) What some other PAPO do: > [@](#): > > [The Criminal Investigations Bureau consists of over 100 Detectives and Supervisors that are specifically trained for crimes occurring at transportation facilities. During the past year the Criminal Investigations Bureau has worked on computerized airline ticket fraud, and property and drug interdictions. They have seized over 10 million dollars of goods including 35 kilos of narcotics. Additionally, the Criminal Investigations Bureau has worked cooperatively with Local, State, and Federal agencies in the fight against crime. Some of these agencies include the New Jersey State Police, the New York City Police Department, United States Customs and Border Patrol and the United States Drug Enforcement Agency. Members of the Criminal Investigations Bureau also work as part of the FBI Joint Terrorist Task Force to prevent terrorist activities in the region.](http://www.panynj.gov/pap/short_history3.html) In addition to the 37 PAPO lost in the September 11 attacks, [7 PAPO have lost their lives in the line of duty since the force’s founding in 1928.](http://www.panynj.gov/pap/sept113.html) Sounds like cops to me. This General Questions aside has been brought to you by Bombardier. Did you know we deliver our rail cars by boat? Is Alanis Morissette taking notes on this? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/28 "2003-05-23T02:21:48Z")
So, this guy puts in a stupendous amount of effort in his vitally important job, and gets a big pay check for his efforts. And this is a bad thing because… Sounds like sour grapes, to me. Wassamatter, **John**? MickeyD’s put you back on the deep-frier again? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/29 "2003-05-23T04:04:53Z")
> [@](#): > > originally posted by Monty > You are truly a moron, John. Peace officers are police officers. Hie ye to a dictionary of the English language instead of whatever it is you’re using now. Wrong. I am a peace officer in NYS , and I do not have the same powers as a police officer. I can’t arrest a a person for committing an offense that in not a crime (such as disorderly conduct or harassment) unless it was committed in my presence. A police officer can. There are other differences, but that’s the first one that comes to mind. Port Authority police officers are police officers as defined in the NYS Criminal Procedure Law in 1.20 34 (k) (I’m sure Jersey also includes them in the definition of police officer) Peace officers are defined in section 2.10 of the CPL. > [@](#): > > ## originally posted by JohnBckWLD quote: > > ## The PA officers, and to a greater extent, the TBTA (Triboro Bridge & Tunnel Authority) officers I see on a daily basis really don’t do much in the way of traditional, life-threatening police work. > > Guns & Holsters don’t make cops, the duties they perform do. Actually, the PAPD does much the same job as the NYPD. It’s just that instead of patrolling the streets, the subways or the housing projects as different divisions of the NYPD do, the PAPD patrols the airports and bus terminals and other Port Authority properties.Perhaps you just don’t go to those places often , and therefore don’t see them. I agree that it’s absurd that a small group of officers was allowed to work that much voluntary overtime and that this officer was allowed to do it so close to retirement when the overtime surely could have been distributed more equally among all of the officers. > [@](#): > > originally posted by Miller > So, this guy puts in a stupendous amount of effort in his vitally important job, and gets a big pay check for his efforts. And this is a bad thing because… His paycheck for the year he worked overtime is not a bad thing. The fact that his pension for the next 20 or 30 years is likely to be more than he earned in 2000 or 2001 is a bad thing. But it’s not the fault of the union or the employees. The Port Authority agreed to calculate the pension on this basis, and NYS at least ,knows how to avoid it. This is how my NYS pension will be calculated : > [@](#): > > Highest average of wages earned during any 3 consecutive years. Earnings in any year included in the period cannot exceed the average of the previous 2 years by more than 10%. Any amount in excess of this will be excluded. I can’t double or quadruple my pension by working massive overtime in a single year. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/30 "2003-05-23T11:45:15Z")
I still don’t see any proof or reason why this officer couldn’t have done this. Heck, there’s a lady down the hall whose worked over 100 hours this week, with another day to go till her day off. I’m sure some people can live doing that much work. I still see an awful lot of the OP insisting something is “wrong”, but absolutely no proof or even logical induction. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/31 "2003-05-23T14:15:41Z")
Two things for you doreen: 1. I did a websearch for definitions of both police officer and peace office in New York. What I got was a lot of stuff equating them and a lot of stuff saying that police officers are a category of police officer. I’d be happy to see exactly why a peace officer in the great state of New York isn’t granted police powers, if you would be so kind as to provide a cite. 2. John was bitching about a police officer. You know, those with the actual title of police officer. He disparaged the guy’s status as police officer because he’s too damn ignorant to educate himself that the Port Authority actually has folks with the title police officer and the powers of police officer. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/32 "2003-05-23T14:35:21Z")
Suppose I should point out that NYC has been at High Alert since, well, 911. Cops _have_ been pulling double and triple overtime… Not sure if they count an overtime hour as working 2 hours, or not, it would make sense either way. We’ve had cops walking up and down the bridges, cops standing around in the middle of Penn Station when it’s not the National Guard doing it, cops here, cops there… Suspicious packages, traffic snarls… frankly, yeah, it’s a _lot_ of overtime, but I’d sure like to see what the average PAPD officer worked last year. And a lot of it is standing-around, guarding things work, which is pretty easy for an officer-near-retirement to do, freeing up someone a bit more active to do the more intensive labor. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/33 "2003-05-23T21:08:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, based on your knee-jerk Enron, Worldcom, AA contibution, I’ll bet it’s a fairly safe assumption that if you put the words state-run, government agency, centralized or public in front of “it”, everything just comes up roses. That’s funny coming from the guy who said (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > When are these **slimy lawmakers** gonna pull their empty heads out of their asses, tell these **Civil Servant Employee Unions** they’re breaking our backs and change the way we do business here? Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle a jerk? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/34 "2003-05-23T22:04:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > > This General Questions aside has been brought to you by Bombardier. Did you know we deliver our rail cars by boat? Is Alanis Morissette taking notes on this? Nah-ah. Bombardier-built R-142 equipment is delivered by train from Plattsburgh via Oak Bridge Railyards in Da Bronx, towed over Hell Gate and driven down the Bay Ridge branch of the LIRR, where there is a little known connection to the IRT Livonia via Linden Yard. They are then towed by NYCTA diesel to the 208th street yards in Da Bronx. A lot of effort for those Canadians to get the things from one spot in Da Bronx to another. Of course, due to Bombardier’s spectacularly awful MDBF numbers, they have been all but eliminated from any possible future involvement with NYCTA, especially the R-160 contract ('twill be a joint venture between Kawasaki, who already builds the R-142A and R-143, and Alstrom). This other General Questions aside brought to you by St. Louis Car, whose subway equipment has been known to have unfortunate encounters with [boats](http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?img_22080.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/35 "2003-05-23T22:31:16Z")
Monty: 1)Peace officers in NYS are not granted police powers, they are granted the powers of peace officers. They are not exactly the same. In some situations police officers have more power and in others peace officers do. [Peace officers](http://www.megalaw.com/ny/nycodetoc.php?QUERYDATA=@SLCPL0P1TAA2) [Definitions](http://www.megalaw.com/ny/nycodetoc.php?QUERYDATA=%24%24CPL1.20%24%24@TXCPL01.20) 1.20 34 for police officers [Arrest without a warrant](http://www.megalaw.com/ny/nycodetoc.php?QUERYDATA=@SLCPL0P2THA140). You’ll notice that peace officers and police officers are in different sections. 1. You must have missed this part of my original post > [@](#): > > Port Authority police officers are police officers as defined in the NYS Criminal Procedure Law in 1.20 34 (k) (I’m sure Jersey also includes them in the definition of police officer) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/36 "2003-05-24T00:00:10Z")
Gotcha, doreen. Thanks. The real issue, though, remains that ol’ Johnny along with at least one other poster doesn’t like the Port Authority Police Officers being honest to goodness police officers. Well, TDB; they are, in fact and in law, police officers. ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/37 "2003-05-25T05:11:10Z")
Yo, **monty,** - on the off-chance that I’M the ‘one other poster’ you’re referring to above, you’ve missed the boat that I was riding on. \<\<\\>\> My point was that you were acting like an asshole, name-calling and shooting from the hip. I gave a cite to support John’s OP (he’s not ‘my pal Johnny,’ we’ve never interacted on this board or in person), because I also found it hard to believe that anyone worked 16 hours a day for 360 out of 365 days in one calendar year unless his name is Chuck Berry. \<\\> Just type this in readable english next time, and I’ll be satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/38 "2003-05-25T06:25:27Z")
You know, stockton; every time you post, you show exactly how stupid you are. I was addressing the fucking fact that John was bitching about a police officer and also the FACT that John was disparaging that police officer’s position as a police officer. So, basically, I guess I really do have to translate into dumbass for you. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/39 "2003-05-25T06:33:59Z")
p.s. stockton: I posted this a while back in response to one of your earlier stupidities: > [@](#): > > Your opinion has no value to me. 'Twas a fact then and 'tis a fact now. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379/40 "2003-05-25T21:55:12Z")
Um, John, care to elucidate us on this: > [@](#): > > They’re more like glorified Brinks Truck guards, who provide armed escorts for the wagon loads cash they take out of the booths every hour or so. Even amored truck guards get killed on the job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-were-at-war-i-did-my-part-to-pad-my-pension-and-abuse-the-system/176379.md?page=3)