# "We wil fight them on the beaches" Churchill question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703 "2010-11-06T15:53:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/1 "2010-11-06T15:53:50Z")
This has probably been asked before. One of Winston Churchills most famous speaches is the one where he says “We will fight them on the beaches” etc. The guys in the lunchroom say that an actor gave the famous speech because Winston was “under the weather” ie drunk or hungover. My girlfriend says that he did give the speech. Who is right? ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/2 "2010-11-06T16:01:34Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > This has probably been asked before. > One of Winston Churchills most famous speaches is the one where he says > > “We will fight them on the beaches” etc. > > The guys in the lunchroom say that an actor gave the famous speech because Winston was “under the weather” ie drunk or hungover. > > My girlfriend says that he did give the speech. > > Who is right? Well here’s the [audio](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkTw3_PmKtc) of it. Sure sounds like his voice from every other speech I’ve heard from him. Key part is about 1:20 in. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/3 "2010-11-06T16:04:33Z")
Neither, according to one source. From [WinstonChurchill.org](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/speeches/speeches-about-winston-churchill/his-speechs-how-churchill-did-it) > [@](#): > > 6 David Irving has put it about that this broadcast, along with the fight on the beaches" speech of 4 June was in fact the work of the actor Norman Shelley (Churchill’s War, Avon Books 1987, 313, 338). Others, such as Clive Ponting in 1940: Myth and Reality (Hamish Hamilton 1990, 158) eagerly followed suit. In fact, neither Churchill nor Shelley broadcast the speech of 4th June: parts of it were read out by an announcer with no pretence to be other than who he was. The speech of 18 June was broadcast by Churchill and can be heard at the National Sound Archive in London, ref. 2488-91, preceded by an announcer saying: “Ladies and gentlemen, the Prime Minister.” Churchill was asked by the British Council later in the war to make a recording for the U.S., and having rather a lot on his plate, he suggested they use an actor instead. Shelley did the recording, Churchill heard it, was much amused and gave his approval. Shelley told the story in a BBC radio interview in 1978. It is not known for sure when, if at all, his recording was used. Its fate remained unknown until the autumn of 2000 when Anthony Shelley discovered a disc dated 7 September 1942 of his late father doing a Churchill impression, though it is not of any known Churchill speech. I am grateful to the late Sally Hine and to Simon Rooks of the BBC Sound Archive and to Chris Mobbs of the National Sound Archive for helping to sort this out. (See, “That Actor Again” in Datelines, FH 109.) However, there does appear to be a recording of Shelley reading the speech. The [Guardian announced its existence in 2000](http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/Observer291000.html). David Irving comments on that page. He is the historian who made the claims about Churchill’s drunkenness. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/4 "2010-11-06T19:11:18Z")
Given what an absolute scumbag that Irving is, and his revisions of history, I would want to see other reputable independant sources. Do a search on Irving and you’ll soon find out what I mean. I have read somewhere that the orginal speech was broadcast live, and had to be recorded for posterity at some later date. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/5 "2010-11-06T19:39:14Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Given what an absolute scumbag that Irving is, and his revisions of history, I would want to see other reputable independant sources. > > Do a search on Irving and you’ll soon find out what I mean. > > I have read somewhere that the orginal speech was broadcast live, and had to be recorded for posterity at some later date. The original speech was given to the House of Commons, which didn’t record any speeches. If you’re saying that the radio speech was live, of course it was. ---
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/6 "2010-11-06T20:27:57Z")
> [@DxZero](#): > > Well here’s the [audio](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkTw3_PmKtc) of it. Sure sounds like his voice from every other speech I’ve heard from him. Key part is about 1:20 in. I don’t think its impossible for an actor to imitate Churchill. Clearly, this Norman Shelley guy was pretty convincing. As for the other posts, they are conflicting. Obviously, Churchill read the speech more than once with this Shelley guy reading it at least once himself. Who read the speech that is in the Youtube clip in the above link? ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/7 "2010-11-07T08:58:32Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > I don’t think its impossible for an actor to imitate Churchill. > Clearly, this Norman Shelley guy was pretty convincing. > > As for the other posts, they are conflicting. > Obviously, Churchill read the speech more than once with this Shelley guy reading it at least once himself. > Who read the speech that is in the Youtube clip in the above link? I don’t think any of us saying “sounds like Churchill to me” is of much weight - our idea of what Churchill sounded like comes from all these recordings! As **Exapno Mapcase** has pointed out all the speeches were originally given on the House of Commons and clearly not recorded, they were subsequently broadcast on the BBC and - whatever Irving says - there is little doubt it was Churchill who delivered them. There are too many contemporary accounts of his doing so to be in much doubt, many of them by Conservatives with little love for Churchill. The difficulty is knowing if the recordings we have all heard were made at the time. This is complicated because it is clear that Shelley did record at least one of the speeches later in the war and Churchill re-recorded some of the them in the early 50’s for the BBC - quite possibly they had lost the war-time originals! So in answer to the OP: Churchill did deliver the speeches but whether that YouTube recording was of him making it in June 1940; who knows. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/8 "2010-11-07T12:46:52Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Neither, according to one source. > > From [WinstonChurchill.org](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/speeches/speeches-about-winston-churchill/his-speechs-how-churchill-did-it) The same site also has [a more detailed article](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/myths/myths/an-actor-read-his-speeches) by Robert Rhodes James. ---
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/9 "2010-11-07T15:16:48Z")
> [@bonzer](#): > > The same site also has [a more detailed article](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/myths/myths/an-actor-read-his-speeches) by Robert Rhodes James. A great read. Thank you. It seems to put the question to rest. ---
**Author:** ![acetylene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@acetylene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/acetylene)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-wil-fight-them-on-the-beaches-churchill-question/559703/10 "2010-11-07T15:44:15Z")
> [@bonzer](#): > > The same site also has [a more detailed article](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/myths/myths/an-actor-read-his-speeches) by Robert Rhodes James. Darn you. beat me to it. I posted this in the “Obscure Military Trivia” thread a while ago.