# We WILL negotiate eventually, so why not sooner rather than later? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255 "2004-04-10T00:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/41 "2004-04-12T19:55:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you only want examples of international terrorist groups, how about Carlos’s organization? Seems like that was handily taken care of without need for negotiation. Well…Carlos wasn’t really the leader of an “organization”. Personnaly, I perceive him as being to terrorist groups what mercenaries are to regular armies. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/42 "2004-04-12T20:20:01Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > Fair enough. Who will decide which are which? The terrorists are the ones who deliberately target non-combatant civilians. Whoever has the resources to do the hunting and the justice-bringing will have to decide who fits the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/43 "2004-04-12T20:26:46Z")
> [@zwaldd](#): > > The terrorists are the ones who deliberately target non-combatant civilians. [So when they come for us, you’ll submit, eh?](http://electroniciraq.net/news/1452.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/44 "2004-04-12T20:33:16Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > [So when they come for us, you’ll submit, eh?](http://electroniciraq.net/news/1452.shtml) I’m not targetting anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/45 "2004-04-12T20:38:21Z")
> [@zwaldd](#): > > I’m not targetting anybody. Who is the terrorist depends on your point of view. To a lot of the world, the US is the terrorist right now, and they’ll remember that the next time someone attacks us. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/46 "2004-04-12T21:02:07Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Who is the terrorist depends on your point of view. To a lot of the world, the US is the terrorist right now, and they’ll remember that the next time someone attacks us. Whoa…you just blew my mind. Like, we ARE the enemy, man! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/47 "2004-04-12T21:12:37Z")
> [@zwaldd](#): > > Whoa…you just blew my mind. Like, we ARE the enemy, man! 😃 You laugh, but we are, to millions of people. And this is a country that still can’t figure out why 9/11 happened. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/48 "2004-04-12T21:32:35Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > You laugh, but we are, to millions of people. OK, but what’s your point? Do you disagree with something I said about terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/49 "2004-04-12T21:56:43Z")
> [@zwaldd](#): > > OK, but what’s your point? Do you disagree with something I said about terrorism? Yes. Sometimes “terrorism” is justified. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/50 "2004-04-12T22:19:39Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Yes. Sometimes “terrorism” is justified. And by ‘terrorism’ you mean ‘violence deliberately targetting non-combatant civilians’? ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/51 "2004-04-13T03:17:15Z")
> [@zwaldd](#): > > IMO, even if a nation does decide that a terrorist ‘cause’ is worthy and changes policy, those terrorists should _still_ be hunted down and brought to justice. Terrorists should always be treated as criminals, their supposed causes notwithstanding. That’s a corner I don’t think nations should fear painting themselves into. According to your logic, **zwaldd** , Nelson Mandela should still be in prison, along with the current leadership of ANC. As you probably know, ANC was on the US State Departments list of terrorists until the late eighties for blowing up stuff. I think that **msmith537** said it best, there has to bee something to negotiate about. Organizations like IRA, ANC, ETA, Hamas had/has “talkable” claims, the Red Brigades, Baader Meinhof, Islamic Jihad, etc, did/does not. The problem with al Qaeda and their brothers is that the situation has gotten completely out of control. Initially they only wanted the US out of Saudi Arabia after GW1, and the communists out of Yemen. Now those arab kids, the second generation, hate the west with all they got, and we will likely have to pay for it, one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/52 "2004-04-13T05:01:03Z")
> [@Alien](#): > > According to your logic, **zwaldd** , Nelson Mandela should still be in prison, along with the current leadership of ANC. So? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255/53 "2004-04-13T08:00:16Z")
> [@legion](#): > > The IRA. There was and remains plenty of negotiation with the IRA. Prisoner exchanges, ceasefires, and the legitimization of Sinn Fein- all achieved through negotiation. Indeed, the IRA might have come to heel much sooner if not for John Major’s insistence that they turn in all their weapons before negotiations began (thus requiring that they give up their stick without offering much of a carrot). The Serbian Black Hand in the early part of this century was fairly major- more than 3,000 members- and was responsible for undoubtedly the most significant terrorist act of all time: the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand (which kicked off WWI for those of you not taking notes). There was no negotiation of any sort; the Serbians, on the brink of collapsing under the pressure of the Austro-Hungarian invasion, arrested and executed the group’s leadership in 1914. That, then, was that. The German RAF packed up its Semtex and Uzis in 1998, not because of negotiation, but because they’d become irrelevant. Marxism, it was pretty clear, probably wasn’t all that good an idea. Aum Shinrikyo has apparently given up on terrorism since Shoko Ashara was arrested; they’re buying up property and starting businesses instead (and changed names). Again, no negotiation there. There are only three groups of major terrorist organizations still carrying out violent operations- Greek anti-anyone who isn’t Greek in Greece groups, south American leftist rebels, and, of course, the myriad Islamic and pseudo-Islamic groups variously agitating against Israel, the West, existing Islamic leadership, and so forth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-will-negotiate-eventually-so-why-not-sooner-rather-than-later/239255.md?page=2)