# Wealthy Brazilian women have 90%-plus c-section rate **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 12, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164 "2013-05-12T17:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/21 "2013-05-12T20:41:58Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The issue isn’t when they are necessary. The issue is when they aren’t. And who decides when one is “necessary”? I probably could have delivered my daughter “naturally”, eventually, but in all likelihood it would have caused a lot of damage to my body and possibly caused a lot of mental trauma too. I also remember reading somewhere - I don’t remember where, so sorry , no cite - that the majority of female gynaecologists opt for c-sections, because they’ve seen the long-term damage natural childbirth can do to a woman’s body. I fully support a woman’s right to have whatever birth works for her and her baby. ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/22 "2013-05-12T20:44:10Z")
I hit send too soon. I meant to add that until you’ve been through childbirth, you’ve no idea how you’re going to react, so you really shouldn’t judge or make assumptions about what is the “right” way to give birth. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/23 "2013-05-12T20:52:46Z")
My mother got a serious staph infection after they delivered my twin and me via C-section. That was some time ago, but I’m guessing it’s still an important risk worth considering. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/24 "2013-05-12T21:08:13Z")
My c-section was ten times easier than the nine hours of labor I experienced before it happened. If I end up getting another one without having to go through the labor first, I will thank my lucky stars. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/25 "2013-05-12T22:23:11Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Honestly, a doctor who would do a c-section - or any other surgery - just because someone walks in and asks for it is not the doctor you would want to be doing it in the first place. So no doctor who does cosmetic surgery should be trusted? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/26 "2013-05-12T22:26:34Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > So no doctor who does cosmetic surgery should be trusted? Not if the person wants it for all the wrong reasons (and there are many for this, too). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/27 "2013-05-12T22:30:32Z")
I wanted to get a vasectomy at age 21 and several doctors refused because they thought I was too young. Bastards. I gave up and didn’t try again for more than 10 years, missing out on my Golden Age of bareback fucking. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/28 "2013-05-12T22:42:32Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The issue isn’t when they are necessary. The issue is when they aren’t. What about “not strictly necessary, but better”? Isn’t anesthetic used routinely for many procedures, even when it’s not “necessary”? I wouldn’t begrudge anyone anesthetic when having otherwise painful dental work done; why should I want to withhold from someone the means to make childbirth less painful? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/29 "2013-05-13T02:11:54Z")
In any case, yes, 90% C-sections is ridiculous. But at the same time, obviously 90% of upper-middle or higher class Brazilian women can not be insane. What we have here is a situation where the speed of social and economic changes in a society is such that there are adaptation problems. There was no time to evolve a model of participative practitioner/patient relationship _on a footing of collaborating equals_ – either the relationship is This Person is _THE DOCTOR_ who has Wisdom and Knowledge you can’t fathom, who are you to question his/her instructions; or, OTOH, you have one where That Person is _THE PAYING CUSTOMER_ and your job is to provide the service they’re buying, shut up and take their money! Also in societies undergoing these transformations, being able to afford a c-section becomes an expectation that you will have one; natural childbirth becomes something that those _ **poor** _ people using public health hospitals or giving birth at home back in the countryside have to endure. Sometimes it’s hard to imagine how intense can the urge be for someone finally experiencing social mobility to abandon and renegue from anything that was “old village ways”. And finally yes some women will deliberately and consciously rather not bother with natural childbirth and prefer c-section for the sake of convenience or predictability. Their bodies, their choice. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/30 "2013-05-13T03:12:52Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Not if the person wants it for all the wrong reasons (and there are many for this, too). Who decides what the “right” reasons are? ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/31 "2013-05-13T04:15:32Z")
I had an elective c-section. It wasn’t medically necessary but it was the best choice for me. I have a happy, healthy daughter and I recovered without a problem. I only hope that others aren’t as judgmental of your medical decisions as you are of theirs. ---
**Author:** ![cherry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/32 "2013-05-13T05:15:06Z")
I delivered twice naturally and tore both times but the healing was routine and easy. But I think you should have options and whatever works for you and ofcourse if its medically necessary go for it. My mom had 4 c sections when they did the staple thing across the tummy and I guess it was pushed on her at the time in England. I would like to sign up for the tummy tuck. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/33 "2013-05-13T05:41:44Z")
I think these are the key paragraphs in the linked article: > [@](#): > > Brazil has a two-tiered medical system. The C-section rate in public hospitals is much lower, the result of a government push to reduce medical costs associated with C-sections. More expensive = status symbol. > [@](#): > > (Doctor Sasaoka) says he doesn’t think they are necessarily better, but that a woman needs to consider more than just the medical aspect of birth, such as the impact on her and her family. A doctor saying that medical aspects aren’t as important as “impact on her and her family” (actually, from later paragraphs, impact on _the doctor’s schedule_), and the higher medical risks and greater recovery times are not a negative impact. Just schedule the birth when the doctor has a spot. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/34 "2013-05-13T12:03:19Z")
**Boyo Jim** : You’re off-topic here: > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > How can one identify women with vaginas of the gods? and here: > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I wanted to get a vasectomy at age 21 and several doctors refused because they thought I was too young. Bastards. I gave up and didn’t try again for more than 10 years, missing out on my Golden Age of bareback fucking. You may want to go find a thread where your contributions are relevant, or perhaps start one of your own. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/35 "2013-05-14T04:23:56Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > My mother had three spontaneous vaginal births, all of them uncomplicated and none of them particularly difficult. I am fascinated by your description of her births as “sponteneous.” To me, this suggests that … no, surely not. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/36 "2013-05-14T05:58:14Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > I am fascinated by your description of her births as “sponteneous.” To me, this suggests that … no, surely not. You’ve never heard of provoked deliveries? 😕 Maybe they’re called something else in English. It’s when the woman gets to the hospital at a time agreed upon with the doctor and they give her drugs to try and get the delivery started. ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/37 "2013-05-14T08:18:57Z")
It’s called an induction in the UK, and they generally don’t do them here until you’re at least two weeks overdue, unless there are other medical concerns. In my case an induction was planned for three days after my due date, because of the baby’s size, but it wasn’t needed as I went into labour on my due date. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/38 "2013-05-14T17:20:59Z")
Personally I think it’s fine for women to choose an elective c-section, but my problem is with the medical professionals who treat it like it’s no big deal, and almost certainly easier than what they tend to sell as long, painful labor that will often end up with surgery anyway. Sure, individual people may have a better experience with surgery than with a vaginal delivery, but across the population, c-sections have higher rates of: infection, blood loss (sometimes leading to hysterectomy), pulmonary embolism, and lasting pain for the mother, higher rates of prematurity for infants along with all the respiratory, neurological, and other problems that brings, and result in just as many cases of pelvic floor dysfunction as vaginal birth. Yet many women seem to come away from doctor’s offices with the impression that a c-section is akin to getting a pedicure. I say, sure, let women choose surgery if they like, but make sure they’re getting all the information about it first, not just a glowing review from an OB who feels more comfortable with the illusion of control and limited liability it brings. ---
**Author:** ![kambria](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eb9ed0/32.png) [@kambria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambria)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/39 "2013-05-14T18:17:16Z")
I’ve experienced almost the entire spectrum of delivery: 1. Natural but delivered with a vacuum extractor in the end 2. Epidural 3. Scheduled C-section 4. Completely natural VBAC (really fast labor) With two of the three vaginal deliveries, I experienced some tearing, and it was painful…for a couple days. The C-section, by contrast, was _excruciating_! It hurt for a few days to laugh or cough, and I still experienced pain months later. There’s a reason hospitals routinely offer a morphine drip post C-section. The option for women to have an elective C-section with no medical reason seems more than a little strange to me. It’s riskier, more painful, and not recommended by most medical practitioners ([example](http://www.acog.org/Resources_And_Publications/Committee_Opinions/Committee_on_Obstetric_Practice/Cesarean_Delivery_on_Maternal_Request).) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164/40 "2013-05-14T20:10:30Z")
> [@Jennyrosity](#): > > It’s called an induction in the UK, and they generally don’t do them here until you’re at least two weeks overdue, unless there are other medical concerns. In my case an induction was planned for three days after my due date, because of the baby’s size, but it wasn’t needed as I went into labour on my due date. Thank you, I’ll try to remember the word for next time. In Spain there was some worry for a bit that some doctors were inducing too much; like those Brazillian cesareans, it was a matter of selling a procedure that should not even be recommended for a case with no complications as being “more convenient” than letting Nature run its course and yes, maybe waking people up at 11pm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wealthy-brazilian-women-have-90-plus-c-section-rate/658164.md?page=3)