# Weapons ban lapsing causes no panic, except in fearmongers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863 "2005-04-24T14:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/141 "2005-04-25T21:21:03Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > As for the things that have been banned/controlled since 1934, do you think that whatever law it was that was passed in 1934 is correct? If your argument is that it’s OK to ban bazookas because they’re already banned, well, isn’t that a bit circular? Yes, the argument is circular. However, (and I’ve just been skimming this thread recently because gun threads can become so tiresome) I don’t think anyone is saying it’s okay for bazookas to be banned because they’re already banned. As I said in my first post, I am in favour of restricting such things as bazookas because you only have to be close to injure or kill; unlike a firearm, which must be pointed and the projectile must hit the individual target. The same arguments being put forth here in opposition to the AWB might well have been applied to the 1934 Act. The only difference that I can see is that the AWB banned firearms based on _cosmetics_, while the 1934 law banned them on _function_. Still, I’d be willing to bet that more machine guns were not used in crimes prior to 1934 than were being used by the gangsters. However, since the 1934 law _was_ passed and has been in effect for seven decades, it seems pointless to argue one way or the other whether _it_ should have been passed. The salient point is that the firearms banned by the AWD were and are functionally different from the firearms banned in 1934 and that people who confuse the AWB firearms with machine guns do not know the difference. Taking a very long view, a case could be made for the ‘slippery slope’. First they ban machine guns, then they ban guns that _look_ like machine guns… Personally, I think it would be fun to have my own MP5. As I’ve said in other threads, I don’t feel the need to protect myself with a firearm. And, as I’ve also said elsewhere, I don’t hunt. If I had an MP5, the only thing I’d do with it is poke holes in paper (very quickly) at a shooting range. Or modify it for use as a blank-firing prop in a film. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/142 "2005-04-25T21:24:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > People who creep houses to steal are seldom armed. I would not kill a man to protect my money, any more than I would kill to take his. I can get more money, a soul stained by blood is a permanent fact, the damned spot does not come out. All snarkiness aside… Do you really believe this? Lets say that someone, knowing about your attitude, break into your home tomorrow to take all your stuff. This person, being a home invading psyco, can only be stopped when he is killed. You wouldn’t kill to stop him, so you let him take it? Would you call the cops? If so, they would certainly kill to stop him, so that stain goes back onto your soul again. I understand the desire for this level of pacifism from some people. However, I just don’t see how it would work in reality. If you truly have this attitude, how is it that you have any stuff left? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/143 "2005-04-25T21:52:50Z")
Its not pacifism. Pacifism is an entirely admirable position, and I disagree only slightly. But one must resist evil, I hold this truth to be self-evident. One must be willing to undertake violence in desperate situations That one never undertakes aggressive violence is a given, and that defensive violence be held to very strict standards: to protect the innocent, the helpless, or the beloved. Given those parameters, I’d blow away a miscreant without batting an eye. The protection of property does not meet these standards. Your morality may vary. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/144 "2005-04-25T22:51:30Z")
If you want to know what types of weapons, extended ammo clips and conversion kits are easily available, go to your local newsstand and pick up a little weekly called [_Shotgun News_](http://www.shotgunnews.com/) . There’s much more in the weekly itself then there is in their online ads, btw. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/145 "2005-04-25T23:39:31Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > What I was saying is “some of those pro-gun arguments could also be used to support private ownership of nukes, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what you actually believe, so please explain to me what the difference is, and how it is that your arguments don’t, in fact, support private nukes”. See the difference? You set up a straw man to defend your straw man? Max, really, this is a gun debate. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > So your objection is not based on the rightness or wrongness of the plan, but the implications of the plan in the current political climate? (Not that that isn’t necessarily a valid position…) If you had 100% assurance that there was no slippery slope or any sort involved, what would your opinion be? Pretty much as I have stated. There is no need for more gun laws. If, and that’s a big if, I could be asured that confiscation isn’t the next step, I would agree to registration. But that can’t be done. Ten or twenty years down the road…. who knows. Because of the anti-gun folks, I am against registration. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > What about making such classes (or demonstration of pre-existing knowledge and proficiency) mandatory for gun ownership? Ehh. OK… How? How do you demonstrate pre-existing knowledge? I’ve never purchased a gun, I own 8. I have been shooting for 35 years. How shall I demonstrate ‘pre-existing knowledge’? I know what you’re trying to say, but it’s unrealistic. People like you, Max, are the reason that I will think long and hard before I register my guns. I don’t trust you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/146 "2005-04-26T00:05:48Z")
Curses! He’s on to us! One of you call George Soros, and I’ll rev up the black helicopters! ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/147 "2005-04-26T00:19:24Z")
**Max:** as one of the few rational, thoughtful posters thus far, I thought that your post deserved it’s own response, separate from the sarkiness I’ve heaped upon the assholes and idiots I’ve been doing my level best to insult > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > First, a few questions for the pro-gun crowd: > (1) At what point would you draw the cutoff line between things people should be allowed to own and things they shouldn’t? Or would you draw no line? Does anyone here think that average citizens should be able to own, say, nuclear weapons? (And I ask that not as a strawman, because as long as you don’t support private ownership of nukes, there does have to be a cutoff point somewhere. Where? And what’s philosophically or legally or practically different about weapons on one side of it vs. weapons on the other side of it?) > > (2) What’s your opinion about laws that would affect weapon ownership without ever disallownig it, in particular, registration laws, trigger lock laws, gun-safety-class-laws, background checks, waiting periods, restrictions on what can be sold at gun shows, etc.? **(1)** The 2nd. Amendment applys to arms, not ordnance. Arms are defined as being carried and operated by one person. Ordnance fits several criteria separate from that, but tends to fall most heavily upon two: 1). operated/employed by a crew of two or more people, and 2). has an “area effect,” that is, is designed to kill more than one person per use/operation. The NRA has never lobbied, and never been an organization is support of, keeping and bearing ordnance. **(2)** Many of those are good ideas in theory, except for two things: 1). Such measures have been successfully used elsewhere to enact total bans and confiscations 2). Too many American legislators have openly espoused admiration of those other places in their successfull employment of such “incremental approaches,” and a desire to adopt similar approaches here in the U.S. to first ban hadguns, and then all guns. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > And a few general comments: > (1) I’m far from being a constitutional scholar, but the way I read the 2nd amendment, the first clause is basically irrelevant. If there was an amendment that read "Thomas Jefferson being a big booger head, it shall be illegal to name boys ‘Thomas’ ", the effect would be making naming boys ‘Thomas’ illegal. What the motivations were (TJ being a boogerhead) are irrelevant, and are merely commentary. > > (2) What bothers me about the pro-gun side of this debate is that I feel they are so entrenched in their positions that they reflexively strike out at any and all anti-gun measures, without really feeling a need to justify that particular response. Now, I agree that the AWB ban seems pretty stupid, from all I’ve heard. But I think that (for instance) a waiting-period law is totally reasonable. But the response to it doesn’t seem to be so much “well, here are 5 logical reasons why a waiting-period law would be a bad idea” (and I can well believe that such logical reasons might exist). Rather, the response is “Slippery slope! Cold dead hands! People kill people! Why do you hate the constitution???” > > (3) While we’re here, here’s my view of the topic as a whole: I think that people should be basically allowed to own almost anything up to things that are nearly WMDs. But I think that more and more potentially destructive things should require more and more regulation, safety equipment, etc. If you really want to own an M-16 for fun, for your collection, or for home defense, I have no problem with that. But as an M-16 is potentially FAR more destructive than a bread knife, I see no problem with licensing, registration, safety training, waiting periods, background checks, and so forth. (1). Yes! Exactly! 🙂 (2) Not entirely correct. For instance, when the Armor Piercing Bullet Ban was first introduced, it was written (by anti-gun people) so broadly as to ban almost every centerfire cartridge made. The NRA came into the process and had it re-written to ban (for public sale, of course; cops and the military still use them) bullets specifically designed and manufactured with enhanced attributes for armor piercing capabilities. (3) Your wish has already been granted; you just described the Federal (thus, minimum) regulatory scheme of firearms in the U.S.A. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > And can’t all the arguments that people make about wanting to own guns because they’re fun to shoot recreationally also apply just as well to things which presumably are NOT legal, such as machine guns and bazookas? Not too sure about bazookas, but machineguns are, with the exception of a few states, legal but heavily regulated. There’s a great Machinegun Shootoff near Ft. Knox Kentucky every year, and always draws an enthusiastic crowd (of shooters, and mere spectators). ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/148 "2005-04-26T00:21:42Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > Someone wanna explain to a non-armed to the teeth Limey why, if the ban didn’t actually affect anything, what the big deal is? > > If you want to have a shot at why the second ammendment doesn’t protect the right of citizens to own a tank, feel free, for a bonus point… Because the 2nd protects the right to keep and bear _arms,_ NOT ordnance. > [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Incidentally, you _can_ own a tank. I believe you can, even in England. But you cannot own a working canon. Correct; the _cannon_🙂 must be “demilled (sp?),” that is, rendered non-functional. IIRC, it typically involves removing the firing pin and plugging the barrel with something (steel, cement, etc.,). > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Those “fearmongers” you speak of would include GWB, you know. He said he would sign the ban again if it got to his desk. So don’t forget to include him while you’re burning down strawman. > > And congratulations on regaining access to to more powerful phallic substitutes. I hope you can finally feel like a man now. IMO, GWB said that to play the political game. IMO, he knew it wouldn’t be renewed by Congress, so he cold safely espouse his, “if it’s passed, I’ll sign” platform to appease the hand-wringers without having to actually worry about having to follow through with it. Oh yeah: _you’re_ a Dick, and one of the biggest problems with The Straight Dope. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Personally, I think the framers probably were thinking of citizen militias and intended the amendment to apply to individuals but it’s far from a settled question and the contempt and hostility heaped on people who interpret it that way is unwarranted and unfair. Okay, I retract the “biggest problem” statemt. But you’re still a Dick. > [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > _Should_ they be banned? Given that I’ve never heard of one being used in the commission of a crime, and that they appear to be no danger to society, I don’t see a good reason to ban them if they aren’t already. But I don’t think that they would fall under the protection of the Second Amendment. YMMV. Of course they’re used in crime! And supported by the NRA, too! Didn’t you see _Lethal Weapon 4_? Mel Gibson and Danny Glover said so. Hell, it was shot in _L.A.!_ Man, you west-coast people can’t even be bothered to pay attention to what happens in your own town. :rolleyes: 😉 > [@Czarcasm](#): > > So this thread is an admission by the “slippery slope” proponents that they were absolutely wrong? > In that case, thank you for the apology. It’s so nice when people can admit their mistakes and move on. Get bent, asswipe. It’s not an admission of being wrong, it’s an exhultation of victory over those who would shamelessly use an incremental process (slippery slope) to achieve their political agenda. > [@kung fu lola](#): > > Listen, dood, I’m not an American (Thank G-d), and so I don’t care or have to care. Then shut the fuck up and fuck off, asshat. > [@kung fu lola](#): > > It rubs me the wrong way when ordinary, Joe-Blow citizens start running around with machines that serve **no other purpose** than to rain hot-leaded flesh-shredding death down onto other human beings, and I don’t think that makes me stupid or ignorant. If it was, in fact, the intention of the Founding Fathers that Josephine Average have the Gawd-given right to pack heat that can spit out multitudes of bullets in one minute, then perhaps they didn’t think that particular concept through very thoroughly. Firearms in private hands are used predominantly for hunting and target shooting in the U.S., **dickhead.** You don’t have single fucking clue, and YMMV (the alternate meaning). > [@Zoe](#): > > Handguns are easier to smuggle into schools in backpacks. (I’ve had two handguns removed from students in my classroom.) They are easier to take into banks and corner markets in a pocket. They are easier to use in parking lot robberies. They are handier for those with suicidal impulses. Handguns aren’t terribly useful in hunting. > > Banning both the gun and the ammunition might actually make a dent in criminal use of handguns. Yeah, that’s working wonders in Mexico and Brazil. :rolleyes: And how often do you go hunting? When was the last time you went hunting? What were you hunting, and what with? A handgun is fairly useful to hunters. > [@Zoe](#): > > **catsix** , the person who told me the statistic about handguns being more likely to kill someone who lived in the household than an intruder is a former state Director of Mental Health who also works with the prison system. I guess he’s not an ultimate authority, but he’s very knowledgeable. > > In my own experience, I’ve known five people personally who have used their own handguns to take their lives, but none who have killed an intruder. (I realize that is anecdotal.) The “State Director” was quoting Dr. Arthur Kellerman, who collected statistics of one crime-ridden county in Washington state over a few months and then drew an erroneous (and completely discredited in the Academic community) conclusion of “43 times more likely.” Anti-gun types have used that number relentlessly and shamelessly to scare people just like you with. > [@spooje](#): > > There only purpose of a firearm is to fire a projectile, at a velocity that happens to deadly. Even when the owner uses a firearm for recreation, there is still the very real possibility that someone could get hurt, even killed. There’s several times more deaths from accidental falls that accidental shootings in any given year. > [@Mockingbird](#): > > I completely agree with the OP and wish the NRA and gun supporters hadn’t been fear mongering about the assault weapon ban. > > The individual doesn’t need automatic weapons to defend their home or to hunt deer. > > It also is not a slippery slope that will inevitably destroy the second amendment. > > It isn’t an all or nothing proposition. Just because someone at one point didn’t get a UZI to protect their still from the Revenooers doesn’t mean my ability to get a .45 is next. Neither the NRA or any other pro-gun rights organization was fighting for the right to allow criminals to commit crimes, or shoot police in the performance of their duties. Go dry-hump your strawman somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/149 "2005-04-26T00:30:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you want to know what types of weapons, extended ammo clips and conversion kits are easily available, go to your local newsstand and pick up a little weekly called [_Shotgun News_](http://www.shotgunnews.com/) . There’s much more in the weekly itself then there is in their online ads, btw. And do you have any evidence (except for your prejudice?) that any of those ads are being responded to by criminals? That criminal transactions are taking place? That Shotgun News is in fact facilitating criminals and crime by its very existence? No, you don’t; you just glurged it up there in a shameless attempt to try to draw some shaky parallel between Class III dealers/buyers and crime. You’re a Moderator of a message board supposedly dedicated to “stamping out ignorance,” and here you are purveying it! If I were Cecil, I’d personally come to your home, kick your ass, and take your computer away from you before you could do any more harm to my namesake messsage board. _You’re_ one of the biggest problems with The Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/150 "2005-04-26T00:58:35Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > There’s several times more deaths from accidental falls that accidental shootings in any given year… Which goes to show that we are, as a nation, a little clumsy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/151 "2005-04-26T01:08:41Z")
**ExTank** , I don’t recall mentioning, or even _hinting_ that criminals are getting their weapons using _Shotgun News_, so back the fuck off. If I have something to say, I damn well say it-anything else you’ve happened to read in my post came from your overactive imagination. Do you think that my giving factual information as to the availability of weapons, extended clips and conversion kits does nothing to dispell misinformation? Is there some reason that people shouldn’t refer to this factual information when discussing what is and isn’t available to the public? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/152 "2005-04-26T01:19:56Z")
I’m not familiar with the nuances of belligerent buttmunch culture. When he calls friend **Doggy Knees** a “dick” with a capital “D”, is he making some sort of phallic inference? Perhaps a obscure sort of flattery? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/153 "2005-04-26T01:21:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you think that my giving factual information as to the availability of weapons, extended clips and conversion kits does nothing to dispell misinformation? Is there some reason that people shouldn’t refer to this factual information when discussing what is and isn’t available to the public? Except that you left out some factual information. For example, you can’t just call up an advertiser in _Shotgun News_ and order a gun. The seller has to have a signed copy of your Federal Firearms License. The machine guns are only available to Law Enforcement and Class III dealers, not to just anyone who wants one. ‘Conversion kits’ are regulated as machine guns. Check the fine print on M-16 conversion parts, and you’re likely to see something to the effect of ‘You must send a copy of your license.’ Machine gun ‘kits’ _are_ available, and anyone can buy them… _Except_ you can’t buy a receiver. You can buy a metal tube with markings on it, but if you cut the tube, then you have committed a Federal crime. ‘Extended clips’ (they’re called magazines) are not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/154 "2005-04-26T01:27:27Z")
I always thought that the 2nd Amendment gave individuals the right to bear a .75 calibre smoothbore black powder flintlock musket. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/155 "2005-04-26T01:37:41Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Except that you left out some factual information. > > For example, you can’t just call up an advertiser in _Shotgun News_ and order a gun. The seller has to have a signed copy of your Federal Firearms License. > > The machine guns are only available to Law Enforcement and Class III dealers, not to just anyone who wants one. > > ‘Conversion kits’ are regulated as machine guns. Check the fine print on M-16 conversion parts, and you’re likely to see something to the effect of ‘You must send a copy of your license.’ > > Machine gun ‘kits’ _are_ available, and anyone can buy them… _Except_ you can’t buy a receiver. You can buy a metal tube with markings on it, but if you cut the tube, then you have committed a Federal crime. > > ‘Extended clips’ (they’re called magazines) are not illegal. I didn’t leave jack shit out. Both the website and the weekly tell you what is available to the public and what is available to liscensed officials-I merely provided a link to a site that supplies all the information you need to determine for yourself if certain weapons and weapons parts are/are not too readily available. I didn’t mention criminals. I didn’t mention gun control. I only provided a link so that people can find out the facts for themselves. A link that is _anti_-gun control. **Ex-Tank** , you can either apologize or fuck off-this isn’t the first time you read things in my posts that weren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/156 "2005-04-26T01:40:05Z")
Clip-clop-clip-clop BANG! Clip-clop-clip-clop Amish drive-by shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/157 "2005-04-26T01:48:29Z")
Bolding mine. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you want to know what types of weapons, extended ammo clips and conversion kits are **easily available** , go to your local newsstand and pick up a little weekly called [_Shotgun News_](http://www.shotgunnews.com/) . There’s much more in the weekly itself then there is in their online ads, btw. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I didn’t leave jack shit out. Both the website and the weekly tell you what is available to the public and what is available to liscensed officials-I merely provided a link to a site that supplies all the information **you need to determine for yourself** if certain weapons and weapons parts are/ **are not too readily available**. You don’t think it’s _just a little_ disingenuous to use the phrase **easily available** without letting people – who may be among those who don’t know the difference between an ‘assault rifle’ and an ‘assault weapon’ – that licenses are required for firearms and the machine guns they may see in the paper are tightly regulated? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/158 "2005-04-26T02:01:02Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Bolding mine. > You don’t think it’s _just a little_ disingenuous to use the phrase **easily available** without letting people – who may be among those who don’t know the difference between an ‘assault rifle’ and an ‘assault weapon’ – that licenses are required for firearms and the machine guns they may see in the paper are tightly regulated? :dubious: You are absolutely right. I should have included a link showing what the actual requirements are for obtaining a class 3 license, along with all the advantages of obtaining said license. [Here you go.](http://federalfirearmslicense.com/FFL_Kit2.html) It looks as if I qualify for this license if I wish to pony up a couple of hundred bucks for the first three years, but the money you save more than makes up for it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/159 "2005-04-26T02:05:20Z")
Just a quote from this same website: > [@](#): > > This “Holy Grail,” the FFL, will let you start your own gun business. You can save yourself money by buying wholesale and sell to your friends and coworkers. You will never pay $20-$50 for a transfer fee again. You can buy and sell unlimited guns. You can get them through the mail, with no hassle and no time wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863/160 "2005-04-26T02:09:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It looks as if I qualify for this license if I wish to pony up a couple of hundred bucks for the first three years, but the money you save more than makes up for it. Depending on where you live and what class of dealer you wish to become, it can range from serious pain in the ass to impossible to get your FFL. (Not counting C&R, but that’s a different beast.) The BATF needs to approve it, and that pends on your local LEO chief signing off on it. I just don’t want people thinking it’s a simple matter to become a FFL… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-ban-lapsing-causes-no-panic-except-in-fearmongers/300863.md?page=9)