# Weapons of World War II - M1 Garand **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 27, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987 "2005-01-27T22:04:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![monst1lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7c8e57/32.png) [@monst1lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monst1lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/1 "2005-01-27T22:04:25Z")
During WWII the m1 garand was a standard issue weapon from what i know… here is a photo - [Wirtualna Polska - Wszystko co ważne - www.wp.pl](http://eagle-squad.webpark.pl/img/amer/M1_Garand.jpg) The weapon feeds an 8 round clip, and i believe all 8 rounds have to be fired before the clip ejects and another placed into the gun, Was there a way to reload the weapon without firing all 8 shots? I certainly wouldnt want to be at the end of a fight and had gone through 7 shots, then go over the next hill with only 1 before chance of realoading… What type of clip is this called? (one where all shots must be fired) Were snipers really an active part of the war effort? , and what was their purpose usually? Thanks… ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/2 "2005-01-27T22:23:52Z")
Most all of your questions answered from [This Site](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_10_48/ai_90529095) > [@](#): > > The en-bloc clip feed system of the M1 probably led to more criticism than any other characteristic. It was little more than a slight variation of the Mannlicher clip system which was obsolescent by the late 1890s. As applied to the M1, the rifle must have its ammunition in an eight round clip or it will not feed and you have little more than a self-ejecting single shot rifle. > > This sounds like a serious deficiency, hut it never turned out to be so in World War II or Korea. Virtually all of the ammunition intended for rifle use was sent to the troops already packed in Ml clips. The clips became so common that their lack was never a problem. > > The last shot fired from an Ml causes the empty clip to be ejected out the top along with a distinctive ping sound. Some concern was raised by reports that this ping sound was used by enemy soldiers to identify when an individual soldier had emptied his rifle so that his position could be attacked. > > My personal combat experience makes me doubt if that scenario ever actually happened. In the clamor of a battle, such noises and their exact location would be virtually impossible to distinguish even at close range. > > Besides, the time it takes to reload an M1 is well under the time it takes a sprinter to cover 25 yards. The bottom line is that the ping of the. clip on ejection is not and never was a big problem except in the mind of some paranoid troops and pseudo-expert desk jockeys. > > The en-bloc clip magazine system had several other draw backs. One is that the rifle could not have a scope or night vision device mounted over its receiver, where it is the most convenient and efficient, because it would interfere with clip loading and ejection. As a result, sniper versions of the M1 (M1C and M1D) had their scopes mounted awkwardly on the left side of the rifle. > > The en-bloc clip system also made it difficult to top up the magazine of the rifle during a lull in the fighting, what is now called a “tactical reload.” Most troops would just empty their partially loaded magazine in the direction of the enemy and then reload with a full clip. Such wasting of ammunition could be critical in some situations. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/3 "2005-01-27T22:24:22Z")
There’s a release button for the clip on top of and inside the receiver. You have to pull back the charging lever (might also be called the “bolt”) and depress the release. The partially emptied clip will pop out. You can then insert a new full clip, or insert single cartridges into the partially empty one. Most frequently a soldier would simply stick a new, fully-loaded clip in the rifle and save the partially empty ones to reload in a safer time and place. The type of clip used in a Garand is called a “stripper clip.” Here’s a picture. [http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=MAG-246](http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=MAG-246) ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/4 "2005-01-27T23:02:32Z")
**UncleBeer** , the cheaperthandirt site is incorrect. They have the right illustration but the the clip used in the M1 is called an en-bloc clip. A [stripper clip]([http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=SKS-600&mscssid=DD1WVGBJ8L2R9JQMPU](http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=SKS%2D600&mscssid=DD1WVGBJ8L2R9JQMPU) FN4DEDT6FG1QJ6) holds the cartridges by the base and extractor groove. The stripper clip is used to charge a magazine, either a detachable mag or one built into the weapon, but the clip generally doesn’t go inside the mag. It’s normally discarded or as in a Mauser rifle, ejected when the bolt is closed to chamber the first round. In shooting my M1 I have not found it possible to partially load an en-bloc clip without the rounds falling out so I don’t think any partially filled, ejected magazines would still have ammunition in them. This is a problem for target and hunting use so there are special magazines made. Service rifle shooters use special 2 round clips so they can shoot a ten shot string without loading extra rounds and hunters - yes, some folks hunt with an M1 - can get five round clips so as not to violate state game laws. IIRC some folks have modified clips for target shooting that are not ejected automatically. Rounds can be loaded from the top one at a time directly into the rifle. Padeye Brotherhood of the Bruised Thumb ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/5 "2005-01-27T23:43:06Z")
I have a couple of those 5 round clips myself. I love my Garand, but that loading system has its drawbacks, as noted above. Ejecting a partial clip means rounds go everywhere. I’ve never caught my thumb, though (knock wood!) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/6 "2005-01-28T00:19:06Z")
Are M-1s legal for private ownership? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/7 "2005-01-28T01:32:45Z")
> [@monst1lamp](#): > > Was there a way to reload the weapon without firing all 8 shots? I certainly wouldnt want to be at the end of a fight and had gone through 7 shots, then go over the next hill with only 1 before chance of realoading… No problem. Just empty your rifle in the direction of the enemy and reload. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/8 "2005-01-28T01:40:38Z")
A quick Google of “M1 Garand Sales” turns up plenty of places in the US selling them as long as you transfer to a FEL holder. I can’t think of anything unusual about them that would make them illegal. They would be comparable to a current rifle like the [Remington 7400](http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/7400wd.htm) which can be purchased in 30.06. The clip capacity might be an issue, not sure what the current legal capacity is for a semi-auto rifle magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/9 "2005-01-28T01:42:56Z")
> [@monst1lamp](#): > > Were snipers really an active part of the war effort? , and what was their purpose usually? The world’s [deadliest snipers](http://www.geocities.com/dfsnipercorps/history.htm) (allegedly). I’m no expert, but snipers are pretty useful in situations where the opposing forces are pretty close such as urban or jungle warfare. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/10 "2005-01-28T02:12:31Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Are M-1s legal for private ownership? Nothing illegal about them. They are heavier than a Remington 700, and only hold 8 rounds, with no way to stick a bigger mag on it. I got mine through a friend, who got it through the Civilian Marksmanship Program, or whatever that thing was called. Mine’s a mutt…H&R receiver wedded to a Springfield barrel. But it shoots like a dream, and I can blow the balls off a horsefly at 300 yards with it! (_slight_ hyperbole!) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/11 "2005-01-28T02:47:22Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > The clip capacity might be an issue, not sure what the current legal capacity is for a semi-auto rifle magazine. The federal law banning detachable magazines with more than ten rounds capacity expired last September. In any event the law only applied to newly manufactured magazines and did not apply to weapons with fixed or internal magazines. I’ve heard of gunsmiths who modify M1s to accept M-14 magazines. This is a really difficult job because of the case hardened reciever. It was even legal to do this during the ban because the only “evil” feature the M1 has is a bayonet lug so even with a detachable magazine it did not fit the legal definition of “semiautomatic assault weapon.” If you want an M1 the [Civilian Marksmanship Program](http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/index.htm) will be glad to sell you one from the goverment stockpile. The requirements are fairly lax, you just have be a US citizen who does some kind of shooting. When I got mine the requirement was to shoot in a high power rifle match. Mine has a '43 Springfield reciever but was arsenal rebuilt during the early fifties so it’s a mix of S.A. and H&R parts. **silenus** , I’ve found the trick is not being timid about putting the clip in. If you slam the clip in and hold it down the bolt will not fly forward until you pull your thumb out of the way. If you slowly depress the clip into the magazine the bolt will slam forward and try to chamber your thumb. Avoid this as it hurts like a &^%$#@. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/12 "2005-01-28T02:57:58Z")
So I have found. 😃 Having never fired mine in a combat situation, I usually just put my left hand over the back of the receiver and hold the bolt back with my little finger. Then when I remove my thumb, I let the bolt shoot forward. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/13 "2005-01-28T03:12:33Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Are M-1s legal for private ownership? Not only are they legal (and why shouldn’t they be?), but qualified members of the federal government’s [Civilian Marksmanship Program](http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm) can purchase up to eight M1 Garands per year. At only $500 a pop! ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/14 "2005-01-28T03:55:53Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > At only $500 a pop! In the early 60s, before all units were issued M14s, the survey cost if you lost one or broke one (by, for instance, letting a tracked vehicle drive over it) was, as I now recall, $98.00. The real pain with the M1 was cleaning it. The barrel was high carbon steel. If you used some artificial aid like Brasso the tube was nice and shinny for about two hours and then turned black. The .30 cal tube was an ideal place to stash cigarette filters once you had field striped the paper and scattered the tobacco. No, the real pain was the process to open and close the breach. To open the receiver you just shoved the bolt handle to the rear. To close it you stuck you thumb into the receiver and shoved down the follower (the gadget that pushed the cartridge into the path of the bolt to chamber each round). If you did not have a strong grip on the forearm with your left hand to pinch the forward extension of the bolt handle or a fast thumb the bolt would come forward very fash and very efficiently chamber your thumb. The result was called “the M1 thumb.” It hurt. My present recollection is that when the direction was to load with three rounds of ball ammunition, as when firing on the 100 inch range to establish your battle sight, the procedure was to load three rounds into the clip on top of five spent cartridges. If your concern was accurate aimed long range musketry it was a wonderful rifle, even with its silly peep hole sights – a continuing horror and frustration for the nearsighted. Hey, **Crafter Man** , how are things along the Logan-Champaign County line? ---
**Author:** ![Helix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19adc/32.png) [@Helix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helix)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/15 "2005-01-28T05:57:37Z")
Snipers were not used extensively by the US during WWII. Snipers were used extensively by the Germans, Russians, and Japanese. The military has not always agreed on their usefulness. If they had to use them, they didn’t always know how to use them to best advantage. That started changing during Vietnam. Snipers are useful in hindering troop movement, good for dampening enemy morale, good for taking out high value targets, and good for countering enemy snipers. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/16 "2005-01-28T12:07:57Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > Hey, **Crafter Man** , how are things along the Logan-Champaign County line? All quiet on the Northern Front, sir! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/17 "2005-01-28T19:54:22Z")
**Spavined Gelding** , I’m curious why you don’t like peep sights. I’m nearsighted, though not terribly so, and I have always done better with peep sights than with an open rear sight on the barrel. An aperture sight always brings the front sight into better focus for me. I never had military training with the M1 so I closed the bolt by holding the handle with the heel of my right hand as I depressed the follower to release it. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weapons-of-world-war-ii-m1-garand/286987/18 "2005-01-28T22:44:39Z")
**Padeye** , here is the drill. You are in formation with a dozen other guys. You have been on a firing range and the exercise is over. It is necessary to make sure that all the rifles are unloaded. The Acting Jack in charge of your little bunch gives the order Port – Harms. You bring the rifle up to a position diagonally across your body, your right elbow at a right angle, the rifle butt to your right, the muzzle is pointing up in the air, the rifle about four inches in front of your belly. Your right hand is on the small of the stock; your left hand is on the forearm. You are now at Port Arms. The Acting Jack gives the order Hin SPECT shun - Harms! You let go of the forearm with your left hand and with the base of you left thumb you shove the bolt handle to the rear, opening the receiver which locks in that position. You return your left hand to the forearm and glance into the receiver hoping against hope that there is no flash of brass in there and that a cartridge did not eject when the bold went back. You are now at Inspection Arms. At this point the NCO in-charge might take your rifle away from you to look for himself. The next order is Port Harms! On the word “Port” you stick your right thumb into the receiver and depress the follower inside the receiver. That unlocks the bolt which tries to surge forward. If you are skillful or lucky you are holding the bolt handle in place with the heel of your right hand. If you are unskillful or unlucky the bolt comes forward and loads your thumb into a hole that is maybe 1/3 the diameter of your thumb with a distinct sound – typically this: Thump! Shit! If done right on the word of command “Harms” everybody is the squad simultaneously releases the bolt resulting is a satisfying concurrent clank of steel on steel, thus: Port (muffled clicks as the bolts are released) Harms (simultaneous clank). Inevitably every time you do this one guy out of forty will chamber his thumb. As far as peep sights are concerned, I hated them. I just could not see through the hole. It may have been the result of learning to shoot with open sights it may have been the result of dirty glasses. Other glasses wearers have also complained about them to me. What you say makes sense but peep sights were always a pain for me. I never could see a damned 600 meter silhouette.