# Wear masks or not to wear masks? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 8, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346 "2020-04-08T14:56:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/21 "2020-04-09T20:00:46Z")
Since I have no way to acquire a mask, when I went out shopping today I wore a bandanna over my mouth and nose. In addition to trying to find a way to have it over my nose without fogging up my glasses, it made breathing difficult. But I persevered. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/22 "2020-04-09T21:53:47Z")
I’m getting frustrated with some (not all) of the mask-wearers. Some are touching the front of the masks to put them on/pull them up/pull them down or because they’re in the habit of touching their faces, all of which mean their hands are now contaminated, so now that can of tomato sauce they picked up and then put back on the shelf is contaminated. Others seem to think the mask gives them magical immunity and are not maintaining 6 feet distance. I really, really hope they’re washing their hands. A LOT. How much protection does a loose or ill-fitting mask provide the rest of us from someone wearing one and shedding virus? Is it really substantial, or are we still talking “something is better than nothing”? And how many of those wearing masks are doing so to protect others as opposed to thinking they’re protecting themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/23 "2020-04-09T22:29:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep, like i said- people dont know how to wear masks. Wearing them improperly removes what little protection they give YOU. > > However, still, they provide some protection for others, so not a bad idea. I was unaware that masks of the type we’re discussing give you any protection at all. They give others some (but not total) protection from the contents of your mouth, lungs and nose. The guidelines still say you must maintain social distancing. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/24 "2020-04-09T22:32:56Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I went to the store today. I saw three people get out of their cars with masks down around their chins or necks, then when the got to the door of the store, pull them up and adjust them, touching their faces all over. One person Purelled first. Inside the store, nearly every civilian (as opposed to the workers) wearing a mask, bandana, whatever, touched it at some point. Two people, who apparently knew each other, even pulled them down to have a conversation-- standing about two feet apart. Every time I go into a store, I KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT. I even make a point of gesturing to people instead of talking. I don’t know why more people don’t make an effort in that regard, but there are people who still try to chat me up in the cheese section. Why do you think touching your mask is worse than touching your shirt? I can see people putting their mask on when they leave their cars. I had no trouble wearing my mask driving to the store today, but on the way back it started to fog my glasses so I pulled it down. Now, taking a mask off to chat within the store is pretty clueless. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/25 "2020-04-10T02:26:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Why do you think touching your mask is worse than touching your shirt? I can see people putting their mask on when they leave their cars. I had no trouble wearing my mask driving to the store today, but on the way back it started to fog my glasses so I pulled it down. > Now, taking a mask off to chat within the store is pretty clueless. Not addressed to me, but the mask, since it’s very close (millimeters) away from your mouth is worse because it’s more likely to have a heavier viral load. Your mouth and nose shed the virus. Some may land on your shirt, but a LOT is going to land near your mouth. When you pulled down your mask, you touched that potential zone of heavier viral load, which then got on your fingers and from there onto whatever you touched. Don’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/26 "2020-04-10T02:35:52Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Not addressed to me, but the mask, since it’s very close (millimeters) away from your mouth is worse because it’s more likely to have a heavier viral load. Your mouth and nose shed the virus. Some may land on your shirt, but a LOT is going to land near your mouth. When you pulled down your mask, you touched that potential zone of heavier viral load, which then got on your fingers and from there onto whatever you touched. > > Don’t do it. And also the reverse is possible, where potentially contaminated hands bring the virus right to the surface of the mask. Improvised masks will allow the virus to pass through. If the virus is right on the surface of the mask, it can get pulled through from the air being breathed in. The mask should be kept as sterile as possible and only touched with sterile hands to avoid contaminating the mask. A used mask should be considered contaminated and should be handled in such a way that it doesn’t contaminate anything else. Most people will not be this careful. Invariably there will be who get sick because of improper mask handling, but likely fewer people overall will get sick if more people wear masks. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/27 "2020-04-10T03:40:52Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Invariably there will be who get sick because of improper mask handling, but likely fewer people overall will get sick if more people wear masks. This is what I wonder about. What is that statement based on? Is there really any evidence to support this or are the people in charge just desperate to give people a way to feel like they are doing something? I might believe it if we had proper masks but people just affixing random scraps of fabric across their face? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/28 "2020-04-10T03:42:40Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > so now that can of tomato sauce they picked up and then put back on the shelf is contaminated. Personally I’m trying to make a real effort to only touch things I’m going to buy. Very annoying with produce, but I try to make the best guess by eyeball I can. > [@](#): > > Is it really substantial, or are we still talking “something is better than nothing”? As far as I know “something is better than nothing” is absolutely the driving principle. When the local paper is giving instructions on how to make a mask out of old tee-shirts, which truly is only a little better than nothing, it really can’t be anything else. I have ONE mask. An old P95( pricier, oil vapor-resistant N95 )leftover from the 2018 Camp Fire. Shelf-life aside, it is rated for 40 hours/30 days of use( whichever comes first ), but that’s for industrial usage. There is no way to keep something like that absolutely sterile through multiple uses. Best I can do is use it sparingly( as few shopping trips as possible )and let it dry out thoroughly in a paper bag between uses. It’s better than nothing, but it certainly wouldn’t make the grade in a sterile setting. The idea is at the very least to have a physical barrier for droplets, which a tee-shirt or bandana will loosely accomplish. But until everybody has a large supply of disposable single-use, clinical-grade masks, _substantial_ is going to be at best an aspiration. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/29 "2020-04-10T04:23:12Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > This is what I wonder about. What is that statement based on? Is there really any evidence to support this or are the people in charge just desperate to give people a way to feel like they are doing something? > > I might believe it if we had proper masks but people just affixing random scraps of fabric across their face? I have seen mention in various articles that improvised masks can be effective at blocking germs being expelled from the nose and mouth. For example, from [Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic) > [@](#): > > Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask. In addition to capturing germs within the mask, a mask can also impede the expelled air so that the germs which do escape don’t travel as far. One thing that is an unknown is how Americans in general will behave with the improvised masks. Will the benefit of masks be enough to outweigh any potential risks from poor mask procedures? The people of many Asian countries routinely wear masks and there may be some conclusions we can learn from that, but Asians and Americans have different behaviors and the benefits in the Asian countries may not necessarily translate to the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/30 "2020-04-10T04:50:44Z")
Thanks, I have no science background so a lot of that will probably be lost on me. I will try to read it a bit more thoroughly. But I did read this at the very end. > [@](#): > > However, these masks would provide the wearers little protection from microorganisms from others persons who are infected with respiratory diseases. As a result, we would not recommend the use of homemade face masks as a method of reducing transmission of infection from aerosols. I thought preventing aerosol transmission was the whole reason they changed their minds about us wearing masks. I am still not convinced the benefits outweigh the risks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/31 "2020-04-10T06:03:12Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Thanks, I have no science background so a lot of that will probably be lost on me. I will try to read it a bit more thoroughly. But I did read this at the very end. > > I thought preventing aerosol transmission was the whole reason they changed their minds about us wearing masks. > > I am still not convinced the benefits outweigh the risks. Yes- the aerosol transmission coming FROM you to others. The masks mostly protect others, not you. No real risks. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/32 "2020-04-10T06:17:37Z")
Right, I understand that. But the paper that was linked to says homemade masks are not effective for that. I am talking about the risks of people not using masks properly possibly increasing risk of infection. Which is what all the experts were telling us less than a week ago. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/33 "2020-04-10T06:18:18Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > I don’t understand the rage toward people not wearing masks in public. Until less than a week ago that was the official advice. Now you can’t order anything, not even bandanas to arrive in less than a couple weeks. > > Honestly, I am still skeptical. All the things we heard about the dangers of infecting yourself with an improperly worn mask are still there. And I wonder how many people are thoroughly washing their masks every day. > > I am seeing a lot of people making masks out of T shirts. The holes in that fabric are huge, especially if you are stretching it over your face. If the whole point of this change of heart is because we figured out smaller particles are being spread how much is something like this really going to help and is it worth the extra risk of people wearing dirty masks and rubbing their fingers all over their faces trying to adjust them? > > Does anyone have a source for good quality washable masks that ship quickly? I’m skeptical too, but they’re required now in LA, so I got a few of these. They arrived yesterday, 3 days after I ordered them (helps that they’re based in LA too.) They seem decent. Probably not going to make much of a difference, but they’ll get me into the grocery store. [Cotton Face Mask for Men Women Double Layer Cloth Face Cover Washable Reusable Made in USA - Etsy](https://www.etsy.com/listing/791810971/unisex-washable-reusable-cotton-face?ref=shop_home_active_1&frs=1&crt=1) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/34 "2020-04-10T10:10:41Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I went to the store today. I saw three people get out of their cars with masks down around their chins or necks, then when the got to the door of the store, pull them up and adjust them, touching their faces all over. One person Purelled first. Inside the store, nearly every civilian (as opposed to the workers) wearing a mask, bandana, whatever, touched it at some point. Two people, who apparently knew each other, even pulled them down to have a conversation-- standing about two feet apart. Every time I go into a store, I KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT. I even make a point of gesturing to people instead of talking. I don’t know why more people don’t make an effort in that regard, but there are people who still try to chat me up in the cheese section. > > I wonder if there will be a lower incidence of transmission among people who use a signed language as their everyday language? People who sign instead of speaking orally aren’t spit-talking all over each other, and tend to stand a little further apart-- and have the capability of standing really far apart. That brings up an interesting point. I went to the grocery store today and the lady at the deli was wearing a mask. She almost had to scream before me and any other customer understood her. It makes me think that a lot of our verbal communication is in the form of lip reading. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/35 "2020-04-10T14:37:23Z")
I can’t sew, and the rubberband/hair tie method wouldn’t work with my abnormally large head. The [t-shirt method](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html) from the CDC worked well. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/36 "2020-04-10T16:44:59Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > I’m skeptical too, but they’re required now in LA, so I got a few of these…They seem decent. Probably not going to make much of a difference, but they’ll get me into the grocery store. [Cotton Face Mask for Men Women Double Layer Cloth Face Cover Washable Reusable Made in USA - Etsy](https://www.etsy.com/listing/791810971/unisex-washable-reusable-cotton-face?ref=shop_home_active_1&frs=1&crt=1) Oh, thank you for the info, **Esprise Me**! They are not required where I live yet but some of the cities around have started so I think it is just a matter of time. I want to be prepared with something comfortable and easy to wear. A lot of these seem to be made of cotton jersey (aka T-shirt fabric). That just seems like a poor material for this purpose. I suppose it’s good that they are comfortable and easy to breathe through. Maybe people will fiddle with them less. It just seems like it would not contain the germs very well and will become damp quickly. For all the talk of face covers right now by local officials I have literally not seen a single one mention the importance of washing them and not touching them. It looks like the CDC is recommending face covers but WHO still only recommends masks for people who are coughing or sneezing. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/37 "2020-04-10T17:09:53Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I saw an article featuring homemade cloth masks recently and looked into buying a few in case this situation continues. I saw everything from very simple designs that were $15 a piece or 3 for $40 all the way to “dressy” designer masks that were $165. > > I found some that looked good and began placing an order. After completing all the info (billing address, shipping address) they let slide that orders being placed now would be shipped May 30. Psssst: [Decent Exposures](https://decentexposures.com/Cushie/Face-mask) seems to be shipping theirs faster than that. I don’t know what their inventory is like - but an order I placed a week ago shipped last night. I’d suggest that under “special instructions” you say you don’t care what fabric they use - you have to choose a fabric (they carry a variety of fabrics for their other clothing) - but if you don’t care what you get, I suspect it’d get filled more easily. That’s what I did: I chose “cream” and put a note saying any fabric would do. It is a cotton knit - a fairly thick material, and double later - but obviously they won’t contain droplets as well as a less permeable one. But I can testify they are very comfy (our first order got here late last week and we’ve worn them a couple times). Note that we’re using them for brief jaunts - and hanging them to dry thoroughly afterward since they do get slightly damp from breathing. We’ll wash them in hot water when we do need to wash them. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/38 "2020-04-10T17:41:54Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > I am seeing a lot of people making masks out of T shirts. The holes in that fabric are huge, especially if you are stretching it over your face. As you noticed, the efficiency of the mask fabric can be variable depending on how it is used. A t-shirt stretched tight against your mouth is not going to impede the air very much. But a mask which has an airgap between it and your face will drastically slow the air leaving the mask. You can demonstrate this yourself by blowing through t-shirt material and seeing how far away you can feel the air depending on how tight it is against your mouth. This is one reason that cloth masks have pleats or are shaped so that there is more air space. Another reason is that it’s easier to breathe through when more surface area is being used. So if you are using an improvised mask, it should be tight around the edges but loose around your nose and mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/39 "2020-04-10T17:51:20Z")
I am thinking of getting a couple of these. It says they ship in 2-3 business days, no choice of color/pattern but you can make general requests and they will try to accommodate. They are local to me (Massachusetts) so might be quicker for east-coasters than some other places. [https://speakeasytravelsupply.com/products/cotton-face-mcotcotton-face-mask-washable-coronavirus?variant=31703466279012](https://speakeasytravelsupply.com/products/cotton-face-mcotcotton-face-mask-washable-coronavirus?variant=31703466279012) I like the fact that they are made of two layers of quilting cotton. Seems to me that should be slightly more effective. I was concerned they might be too big for my small face and they told me I could make a note at checkout and they could make them a bit on the small side for me. They cost a bit more but for each one ordered they donate one to medical workers. They also seem like a good socially conscious company making quality products and are providing jobs in my local community. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346/40 "2020-04-10T18:35:09Z")
Here is an article with some useful info: > **[What’s the Best Material for a Mask?](https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-DIY-face-mask-ppe.html)** > > Scientists are testing everyday items to find the best protection from coronavirus. Pillow cases, flannel pajamas and origami vacuum bags are all candidates. > [@](#): > > If you are lucky enough to know a quilter, ask them to make you a mask. Tests performed at the Wake Forest Institute for Regenerative Medicine in Winston-Salem, N.C., showed good results for homemade masks using quilting fabric. Dr. Segal, of Wake Forest Baptist Health, who led the study, noted that quilters tend to use high-quality, high-thread count cotton. The best homemade masks in his study were as good as surgical masks or slightly better, testing in the range of 70 to 79 percent filtration. Homemade masks that used flimsier fabric tested as low as 1 percent filtration, Dr. Segal said. > > The best-performing designs were a mask constructed of two layers of high-quality, heavyweight “quilter’s cotton,” a two-layer mask made with thick batik fabric, and a double-layer mask with an inner layer of flannel and outer layer of cotton. > > Bonnie Browning, executive show director for the American Quilter’s Society, said that quilters prefer tightly woven cottons and batik fabrics that stand up over time. Ms. Browning said most sewing machines can handle only two layers of fabric when making a pleated mask, but someone who wanted four layers of protection could wear two masks at a time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wear-masks-or-not-to-wear-masks/851346.md?page=3)