# Wearing religion on your sleeve? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840 "2004-02-12T14:38:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/61 "2004-02-16T12:37:59Z")
We live in a country where we wear all sorts of things on our sleeves. Geeks have bumber stickers that say “My other car is a D-7” or “My Hat of d02 Knows No Limit.” Political folks have stuff like “Bush/Cheney 2000” and “You Can’t Hug Your Kids with Nuclear Arms.” Homosexuals have little rainbow stickers and pink triangles. Parents even advertise that their child is on the honor roll at such and such school. Maybe it’s just an American thing in general. When I lived in Germany about the only stickers I saw on the backs vehicles were the white oval ones with the letters USA or GB on them. What’s so bad about religious bumper stickers but not the others? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/62 "2004-02-16T12:57:55Z")
Sorry, but it’s difficult to view usage of a traditional Muslim greeting (by a Muslim to a board that is mostly non-Muslim) as anything short of an advertisement of one’s religion. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/63 "2004-02-16T13:00:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Sorry, but it’s difficult to view usage of a traditional Muslim greeting (by a Muslim to a board that is mostly non-Muslim) as anything short of an advertisement of one’s religion. It’s not a Muslim greeting. It’s an Arabic greeting. Is “Hello” a Christian greeting? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/64 "2004-02-16T13:15:20Z")
I guess Jackm. means to say that whenever someone writes or says “peace” he/she is advertising a religion. Now be surprized Jackm.: I know atheists who do just the same. What religion are they advertizing? By the way : your reference to “mostly non muslim” board comes across as a bit strange. I mean: Did you need to fill in some form about religion/non religion when you subscribed? I wasn’t asked to do that and also didn’t ask to be informed about the religions/non religions of other members because that is of no importance to me. Maybe you could open a thread to explain why that is important to you? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/65 "2004-02-16T13:37:33Z")
The US isn’t the only country where people stick their religion onto their car bumpers… Brazil suffers from these “jesus mobiles” also (that’s how we call them). A very common sticker is “Thank God I´m Catholic” … others are very similar to the OP. Its common to have very big stickers saying I love Jesus… or Jesus is Faithful (whatever that means). ``` Do these bother me ? Yes a lot. It might be silly of me and reading this thread I really will have to consider these stickers in a more sensible light for sure. Why does it bother me ? ``` - I can’t put a “Thank God I’m an Atheist” on my car without fearing reprisals. - Religion on the sleeve thingy. - Many of the messages imply “better than thou” attitudes… or poor sinners going to hell ideas. - For some reason they seem to drive badly… (or I just notice them more). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/66 "2004-02-16T14:23:02Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It’s not a Muslim greeting. It’s an Arabic greeting. Is “Hello” a Christian greeting? From [yourdictionary.com](http://yourdictionary.com) (pick your official definition, they’re all pretty much the same): _“1. salaam – a deep bow; a Muslim form of salutation”_ Not that I care what people use to close their posts to supposedly take the edge off their remarks (“Salaam”, “Cheers”, what have you). But our buddy **Aldebaran** has been big on slamming the West for supposedly insulting Islamic customs and religious traditions, and yet _he’s_ also indulged in jokes about matters of deep significance to Christians as well as gone on the attack about Christians who promote their religion. Taking a little dose of his own medicine might be therapeutic. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/67 "2004-02-16T14:24:11Z")
R.Mani, Maybe you could make a thread to explain what exactly makes you “look in a hostile manner” to religions or religious people. Could be an intersting discussion (in my opinion anyway). By the way: Do you realize that the second part of your membername can easily be taken as a reference to Manicheism? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/68 "2004-02-16T14:35:49Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > But our buddy **Aldebaran** has been big on slamming the West for supposedly insulting Islamic customs and religious traditions, and yet _he’s_ also indulged in jokes about matters of deep significance to Christians as well as gone on the attack about Christians who promote their religion. Really? I “slam” the West for what you say I supposedly do? (think you need to learn how to read posts of other memebers to start with.) And I make “jokes” about Christian matters and “attack” those who “promote” Christianity? Really? Oh well, I never heard my late mother say that I attacked her religion or “made joeks” about it nor did I hear her priest say such (although he used to have sometimes a hard time hearing my quesitons and remarks) nor do I hear anything of the kind on the side of my mother’s family. Mind you that in my culture respect for your parents (and their family) is so to speak inborn. It is not because my parents died when I was a child that I have less respect for them, or that I would denigrate thjem by “attacking and joking about” their religion. Sorry. Wrong angle taken in a futile try to attack me, in a thread that has 1. nothing to do at all with your strange obsession for making personal remarks 2. Handles about bumper stickers used by Christians, not about my signing my posts with a wish of peace to the readers. If you like such signatures to be banned here, then why don’t you ask the administrators/moderators to post a note about it on the “board rules” ? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/69 "2004-02-16T15:05:39Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > R.Mani, > > Maybe you could make a thread to explain what exactly makes you “look in a hostile manner” to religions or religious people. > > Could be an intersting discussion (in my opinion anyway). > > By the way: Do you realize that the second part of your membername can easily be taken as a reference to Manicheism? > Salaam. A ``` Hi Aldebaran, HHhhmmm... maybe I should be more explicit... since we have only christians here my "hostility" is mostly to them. When I did live abroad somehow Hindus and Muslims didn't tick me off. Not that I can remember. Catholicism and Preaching Protestants are my pet peeves you could say. I don't want to hijack this thread with the reasons why I don't like religion and theists... there must be plenty of other threads about it. They rarely are polite too and I'm not sure they are "interesting discussions". Actually they can be interesting... but I woudn't call them "discussions." ``` Here goes a summary: Being or considering myself a rational person. I am none too friendly to people who need to present their religion and wear it on their sleeves as a badge, I’m better than thou and who look upon others as “lost” or “poor sinners”. Especially when I am tired of seeing these so called “religious” people backstabbing and being general assholes like everyone else. I prefer an straightforward bastard than a hypocritical one. I guess this quick definition would put many muslims into my “hate list”… since there seem to be plenty of hypocrites in any religion. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/70 "2004-02-16T15:06:56Z")
ooopppsss… forgot one thing: “Rashak Mani” is a totally made up name… just sounded nice. RPG character. No religious reference that I know of. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/71 "2004-02-16T15:11:39Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Really? I “slam” the West for what you say I supposedly do?..And I make “jokes” about Christian matters and “attack” those who “promote” Christianity? > Really? Really. You can hardly have already forgotten this entertaining little gem of yours from the [Passion of the Christ trainwreck thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=237442): > [@](#): > > As for the Osama Productions: They are actually based in my personal caves and we are indeed already working on the sequel under the direction of my female bat. Yes, she wears black completely covering her but nevertheless the Christian actor playing Jesus is stalking her, completely out of his mind because of his -unexpected - love. You can imagine that it is not going to be easy to get this film released in the USA. Tee hee. And you are attacking people, _in this very thread_ for promoting Christianity in a way you (and let’s face it, me) do not like. > [@](#): > > If you like such signatures to be banned here, then why don’t you ask the administrators/moderators to post a note about it on the “board rules” ? I’ve already said that I do not care how you end your posts; I’m merely calling attention to your hypocrisy. To quote you: _“(think you need to learn how to read posts of other memebers (sic) to start with.)”_ ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/72 "2004-02-16T15:31:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And you are attacking people, _in this very thread_ for promoting Christianity in a way you (and let’s face it, me) do not like. No he’s not. Aldebaraan has been completely rational and polite in this thread. He hasn’t attacked anybody; he’s made some good points. [/QUOTE] Peac^H^HLov^H^H^HTheologically, Socially, Culturally, and Politically Neutral Acknowledgements, Metacom. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/73 "2004-02-16T15:48:52Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > No he’s not. Aldebaraan has been completely rational and polite in this thread. He hasn’t attacked anybody; he’s made some good points. I was not addressing whether he was rational or made his points civilly. If he wishes to find “astounishing arrogance” in those who do bumper-sticker-type religious promotion, one is entitled to note that same quality in his own postings. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/74 "2004-02-16T16:00:59Z")
Jackm, If I recall well, I made that post in reply to an other member who joked about him wanting to see an “Osama productions” reply to that stupîd Gibson movie. Thus going further on his joke = joking about the joke = not joking about any “religion”. Probably you consider movies to be a realistic picture of “real life”, but that can hardly be my problem. The question remains why you find it some kind of a mission to follow my posts here (= on this thread) up with attempts to personal attacks = with posts that have nothing to do with the OP and that not only are boring, but in my viaw also extremely disruptive for the ongoing discussion. You can of course proceed with this, yet I shall no longer spend my any time (or attention) on reading, let be reply = you shall be howling to the moon like any decent lonely wolf worth the name. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/75 "2004-02-16T16:07:58Z")
I think many Christians who engage in provacative displays of their religion are fishing for abuse. Their interpretation of the Bible says they will be blessed if they are persecuted for witnessing: [Matthew 5:10-12](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+5:10-12&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) > [@](#): > > Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/76 "2004-02-16T16:33:09Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > I think many Christians who engage in provacative displays of their religion are fishing for abuse. Why would they disfigure their car, when all they would need to do is join the SDMB? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SaintStephen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SaintStephen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaintStephen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/77 "2004-02-16T16:56:05Z")
I don’t think that this annoying sort of bumper sticker theology is limited to religion. But I have to admit, as a believer, that when I see cars adorned with those kind of bumper stickers there is a part of me that thinks “oh man can’t youi just be nice to people and allow that to be your witness?” However I get just as annoyed when I see cars adorned with the “born-again pagan” or “recovering fundy” (actually that one is kind of funny) or any of the various bumper stickers professing naturalism, enviornemntalism, liberalism conservatism etc. They are all annoying. There is something to be said for subtlety. I don’t mind when I see a single Christian fish symbol or even a single Darwin fish. But when the only part of the rear of a person’s car that isn’t covered with a bumpersticker is the license plate, then you have crossed the line from professing your beliefs to being obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/78 "2004-02-16T19:13:30Z")
> [@dutchboy208](#): > > Remember, though, that to many (most?) evangelists, most of us _are_ totally ignorant of “Christian beliefs”. God hates homosexuals, interracial marriage, tolerance toward other faiths, and so on- nonevangelist Christians are mostly “ignorant” of this kind of thing, believing as they do that God loves everyone and all that hooey. From a fundamentalist perspective, mainstream America is effectively as ignorant as the poor benighten heathen whom Western Europeans tasked themselves with saving for the last millenium or so. I agree. I was just responding to part of **Kunilou’s** post about witnessing being part of being a good Christian. Spreading the “Good News” about Christianity as if people hadn’t heard of it is like spreading the news that the earth is round. Of course, this applies to western culture, only. Coming back to the OP, if Christians are trying to witness with bumpers stickers, I can only laugh at them. Trying to take such a deep, mulit-faceted topic as religion and reduce it to a bumper sticker is, to paraphrase Woody Allen, saying _War and Peace_ was about some Russians. And I think **Gobear** is right about the attitudes Christians have regarding witnessing. Most of them come across with a smarmy smugness that makes one think “used car salesman.” Behind their suits, ties and fake smiles is an attitude of “we’re right, you’re wrong, why don’t you just admit it!” At least that’s been my experience, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/79 "2004-02-16T19:39:25Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Being or considering myself a rational person. I am none too friendly to people who need to present their religion and wear it on their sleeves as a badge, I’m better than thou and who look upon others as “lost” or “poor sinners”. So, you’re letting us know that you’re… _superior_ to these people? And by pointing this out, am I trying to look superior to you? Let’s _all_ do the superior dance! Hit it, Pearl! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840/80 "2004-02-16T20:33:01Z")
In Florida, things are one step worse. We have _state-issued license plates_ which advertise stuff. No religious ones, yet, but there’s a “Choose Life” one with what’s supposed to look like a child’s drawing of a little girl on it. Each of these specialized plates has a 15 dollar surcharge over the regular tag charge, which goes to whichever nonprofit is associated with the plate. There’s one for my college, for example, which gets 15 bucks from people like me with University plates. The government has no business issuing morally-themed plates though; there are petitions to block the issue of the Choose Life plate in particular practically every month, but the legislature refuses to consider them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wearing-religion-on-your-sleeve/228840.md?page=5)