# Weather services and ellipses **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851 "2011-02-02T02:35:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/1 "2011-02-02T02:35:47Z")
> [@](#): > > URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE > NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CHICAGO IL > 424 PM CST TUE FEB 1 2011 > > …DANGEROUS WINTER STORM IMPACTING THE REGION… > > ILZ003\>006-008-010\>014-019\>023-032-033-039-INZ001-002-010-011-019- > 020630- > /O.CON.KLOT.BZ.W.0001.000000T0000Z-110202T2100Z/ > WINNEBAGO-BOONE-MCHENRY-LAKE IL-OGLE-LEE-DE KALB-KANE-DUPAGE-COOK- > LA SALLE-KENDALL-GRUNDY-WILL-KANKAKEE-LIVINGSTON-IROQUOIS-FORD- > LAKE IN-PORTER-NEWTON-JASPER-BENTON- > INCLUDING THE CITIES OF…ROCKFORD…BELVIDERE…WOODSTOCK… > WAUKEGAN…OREGON…DIXON…DEKALB…AURORA…WHEATON…CHICAGO… > OTTAWA…OSWEGO…MORRIS…JOLIET…KANKAKEE…PONTIAC… > WATSEKA…PAXTON…GARY…VALPARAISO…MOROCCO…RENSSELAER… > FOWLER > 424 PM CST TUE FEB 1 2011 /524 PM EST TUE FEB 1 2011/ > > …BLIZZARD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 3 PM CST /4 PM EST/ > WEDNESDAY… > > A BLIZZARD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 3 PM CST /4 PM EST/ > WEDNESDAY. > > - TIMING…ACCUMULATING SNOW HAS OVERSPREAD NORTHERN ILLINOIS AND > NORTHWEST INDIANA…SPREADING NORTH TO THE WISCONSIN STATE LINE. > THE HEAVIEST SNOWFALL IS EXPECTED TO DEVELOP BETWEEN 7 PM AND 3 > AM WEDNESDAY MORNING ACROSS ALL OF NORTHERN ILLINOIS AND > NORTHWEST INDIANA. > > - ACCUMULATIONS…SNOW WILL BE HEAVY AT TIMES WITH ACCUMULATION > RATES LIKELY REACHING OR EXCEEDING 1 TO 2 INCHES PER HOUR. STORM > TOTAL SNOWFALL OF 10 TO 16 INCHES IS LIKELY TOWARD ROCKFORD AND > DIXON. THE HEAVIEST SNOWFALL TOTALS ARE LIKELY DOWNWIND OF LAKE > MICHIGAN IN THE CHICAGO METROPOLITAN AREA INTO NORTHWEST INDIANA > WHERE 12 TO 20 INCHES OF SNOW IS LIKELY…WITH POSSIBLE > LOCALIZED TOTALS UP TO TWO FEET. > > - OTHER IMPACTS…THE HEAVY NATURE OF THE SNOW WILL MAKE > SHOVELING VERY DIFFICULT…AND POTENTIALLY DEADLY. DURING AND > IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE BLIZZARD OF 1999 OVER 40 PEOPLE IN > THE CHICAGO AREA ALONE LOST THEIR LIVES TO HEART ATTACKS WHILE > SHOVELING THE HEAVY SNOWFALL. TAKE FREQUENT BREAKS INDOORS AND > DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE TASK AT HAND WHEN SHOVELING. > > PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS… > > A BLIZZARD WARNING MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHER CONDITIONS ARE > EXPECTED OR OCCURRING. FALLING AND BLOWING SNOW WITH STRONG WINDS > AND POOR VISIBILITIES ARE LIKELY. THIS WILL LEAD TO WHITEOUT > CONDITIONS…MAKING TRAVEL EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. DO NOT TRAVEL! IF > YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST TRAVEL…HAVE A WINTER SURVIVAL KIT WITH YOU. > IF YOU GET STRANDED…STAY WITH YOUR VEHICLE. What’s with the bizarre punctuation style in these messages? Even if they used to be sent over a system which didn’t have colons and commas and non-capital letters, what about phrases like “VERY DIFFICULT…AND POTENTIALLY DEADLY” which would be perfectly fine with a space and no punctuation mark at all? Is there some reason they still have to look like they were sent from your great-aunt’s AOL account? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/2 "2011-02-02T02:58:00Z")
I think this is the format that used to be sent out via teletype, which was all uppercase. For the ellipsis you cite, it seems to be used to draw your attention to the following text, which would otherwise be lost in the larger block of text. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/3 "2011-02-02T03:02:11Z")
… and is there a guide to their terminology? What does this mean: > [@](#): > > THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN BINGHAMTON HAS CANCELLED THE **WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY**. A \*\*WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT \*\*FROM MIDNIGHT TONIGHT TO 5 PM EST WEDNESDAY. The winter weather advisory has been canceled … WHEW! But … wait … there’s a winter storm warning now? In the same breath? ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/4 "2011-02-02T03:24:28Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > … and is there a guide to their terminology? What does this mean: > The winter weather advisory has been canceled … WHEW! > > But … wait … there’s a winter storm warning now? In the same breath? IIRC, having asked the same question of a friend of mine doing his PhD in meteorology, “advisory” translates to “there is a possibility of this happening, be careful”, while “warning” translates to “as far as we can tell, this is going to happen. Take proper precautions (and don’t be stupid)”. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/5 "2011-02-02T03:29:21Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > IIRC, having asked the same question of a friend of mine doing his PhD in meteorology, “advisory” translates to “there is a possibility of this happening, be careful”, while “warning” translates to “as far as we can tell, this is going to happen. Take proper precautions (and don’t be stupid)”. The terms are defined in this [glossary](http://www.nws.noaa.gov/glossary/index.php?letter=w). ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/6 "2011-02-02T04:02:09Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > What’s with the bizarre punctuation style in these messages? Even if they used to be sent over a system which didn’t have colons and commas and non-capital letters, what about phrases like “VERY DIFFICULT…AND POTENTIALLY DEADLY” which would be perfectly fine with a space and no punctuation mark at all? Note that it’s perfectly fine with a comma too. I’ve always read the ellipses in NWS reports as “punctuation mark goes here.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/7 "2011-02-02T04:57:56Z")
Many, many decades ago I was the news editor at my campus radio station. We got our news from the AP in exactly that same format. Well, not exactly that format. Our originals were badly typed, with missing spaces and weird inserted characters and other stuff not generally compatible with polished final format. When you use three dots instead of other punctuation, however, there is absolutely no doubt that at least a space and probably some other punctuation is needed. If you use “rip and read” - take the physical copy that comes off the printer, rip off the section that contains the news you want, and read that on air as your copy - it is actually much easier to insert mentally your own pauses when they are in a format that means _pause_ rather than a specific semicolon. Why they still use it now is harder to explain. However, if you’re going to use this system at all, this format is actually a pretty good one. It evolved to meet the needs of users. It’s like the difference between a standard book with normal size serifed typeface and a weird-sized book with sans serif fonts and lots of white space in two columns. The latter may be an art director’s dream and perfect for the individual project, but the former will be readable for almost everybody almost all of the time for almost every possible subject. Which is what the news is. Once you get used to it, it’s like FORTRAN, to use an example equally ancient. A coder can read it with blinding speed because its a specialized format geared exactly to their needs. Whether outsiders stumble is not really the issue. Is FORTRAN written differently today because it’s on screens instead of punchcards? (Much of this is WAG, but it feels right. As a Colbert disciple, I feel reality with my gut.) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/8 "2011-02-02T05:15:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Once you get used to it, it’s like FORTRAN, to use an example equally ancient. A coder can read it with blinding speed because its a specialized format geared exactly to their needs. Hah. Well, that depends _greatly_ on the coder _and_ on the needs. I’d be… downright terrified, as a matter of fact, to see someone capable of writing a graphical first-person shooter in FORTRAN-IV. I’d also be surprised to see a modern business application developer capable of reading it. > [@](#): > > Is FORTRAN written differently today because it’s on screens instead of punchcards? Yes, in fact, and you picked a bad example as many others will be around to tell you. For one thing, Fortran has evolved into something that looks like it had a tryst with Pascal. For another, even ancient FORTRAN isn’t maintained with coding forms, keypunches, and “same-day service”\* anymore: The people maintaining ancient physics software use text editors and compile their own code just like the rest of us. \*(“Same-day service” is what you want with a batch programming system, where everyone lines up to use the same computer, one at a time. Same-week might be more like it.) ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/9 "2011-02-02T05:25:38Z")
My guess is so it can be read by the text-to-speech program they use to do the weather radio broadcasts. The ellipses would be the pauses the computer voice has between counties. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/10 "2011-02-02T05:32:21Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > My guess is so it can be read by the text-to-speech program they use to do the weather radio broadcasts. The ellipses would be the pauses the computer voice has between counties. I was going to mention this. The weather radio voices essentially just read these messages on a loop. Probably some text-to-speech software would work without this format, but it’s already written like this, so that’s probably a good enough reason to stick with it. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weather-services-and-ellipses/569851/11 "2011-02-02T06:13:22Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > I was going to mention this. The weather radio voices essentially just read these messages on a loop. Probably some text-to-speech software would work without this format, but it’s already written like this, so that’s probably a good enough reason to stick with it. It was sort of a guess, but I think that may be it. I have two text-to-speech programs and have to use ellipses for pauses instead of commas, which they skip right over. I guess it makes sense because you wouldn’t want it to pause on the comma between a city and state, but you would want it to pause when the comma is in a sentence. The simple solution would be to do away with commas entirely (none in the NWS bulletin) and use ellipses for pauses. I couldn’t find a weather channel with a similar alert to listen to the pauses in the voice but I did hear one that listed counties and it breezed through them very fast, leading me to believe it was reading it in the “WINNEBAGO-BOONE-MCHENRY” format from the OP’s post. From what I can remember of local alerts, the cities following have pauses in between.